Tuesday, July 10, 2018

Truest statement of the week

The Democrats have purged any semblance of progressive politics from their ranks. Democratic party attacks and Republican chicanery were used to end Cynthia McKinney’s congressional career. When Ohio lost a congressional seat after the last census it was no surprise that Dennis Kucinich ended up with the short straw. There isn’t one Democratic member of congress who consistently advances an anti-war platform. Even Ocasio-Cortez falls prey to using liberal gibberish about America being a “force for good” and demanding congressional approval for wars that should never be waged at all. But if she wins her general election in November she will be the lone member who says anything at all about the issues of war and peace.

-- Margaret Kimberley, "Freedom Rider: Ocasio-Cortez and the Left" (BLACK AGENDA REPORT).

Truest statement of the week II

What will Democrats do when they can’t campaign as the “least-worst” option, then shame and blame anyone who dares to vote Green? Greens are running against incumbent Democrats in three California congressional races with no Republican bogeymen in sight. The names of all three Greens will appear right alongside the Democrats’ names on the November ballot, so voters will readily see that they have a choice besides writing in their cat, their cousin, a Green, or some other marginalized candidate. In Districts 13, 34, and 40, there’ll be no Republicans, no least-worst Democrats, and no excuse for shame and blame. In these races Democrats have to make their case on its own merits instead of arguing that Green voters risk electing a Republican and should therefore suffer eternal damnation.The argument that anyone to the left of Donald Trump owes their vote to a Democrat, no matter how despicable, has always been stupid and arrogant, but in these races it’s not even relevant.
Want Medicare-for-All? Free public college tuition and the cancelation of student debt? Sustainable energy and agriculture? Economic human rights? The end of homelessness, gentrification, mass incarceration, and police and border militarization? Want to stop the wars, close the empire of bases, radically cut the military budget, and repurpose resources to meet human needs and build sustainable infrastructure? Want to live in a world where everyone has dignity and purpose, and society respects and protects the life of every individual? No problem if that’s what you’d like to say with your vote in November and you live in the Golden State’s Districts 13, 34, and 40. There’s no need to vote for the least of what you want or against the worst of what you fear. You can vote your conscience by voting Green—for Laura Wells in D13, Kenneth Mejia in D34, or Rodolfo Cortes Barragan in D40.

-- Ann Garrison, "When Democrats Aren’t the Least-Worst" (BLACK AGENDA REPORT).

A note to our readers

Hey --

Tuesday morning.  And we're done.

Let's thank all who participated this edition which includes Dallas and the following:

The Third Estate Sunday Review's Jim, Dona, Ty, Jess and Ava,
Rebecca of Sex and Politics and Screeds and Attitude,
Betty of Thomas Friedman Is a Great Man,
C.I. of The Common Ills and The Third Estate Sunday Review,
Kat of Kat's Korner (of The Common Ills),
Mike of Mikey Likes It!,
Elaine of Like Maria Said Paz),
Cedric of Cedric's Big Mix,
Ruth of Ruth's Report,
Wally of The Daily Jot,
Trina of Trina's Kitchen, Marcia of SICKOFITRDLZ,
Stan of Oh Boy It Never Ends,
Isaiah of The World Today Just Nuts,
and Ann of Ann's Mega Dub.

And what did we come up with?

Margaret Kimberley gets another truest.
Ann Garrison gets another truest.
Our Iraq editorial.  Though we grabbed from C.I.'s snapshot for this, she didn't help us with this.  She and Ava did a lot more this edition.
Like this amazing piece explaining the new cult and its speaker are the new Jimmy Swaggart -- hate, hate, hate.  That's what Hannah preaches.
Our latest roundtable.  We cover film, Iraq, peace, books, TV and more.
Ava and C.I. wrote three pieces this edition.  In this article, they're addressing the attacks on Hillary Clinton in 2008 -- from the left, including Barack Obama.  And how after these attacks, including charges of racism, Hillary was not going to be president.  These attacks could not be overcome.
Ava and C.I. have little respect for the uninformed who showed up to support Hillary in 2016 but couldn't support her in 2008.
Cedric lists ten books that matter to him.

He nailed it.
Marcia lists ten books that matter to her.
Cynthia McKinney.
A look at book coverage in the community.
What we listened to while writing.

A look back at some of the community's best pieces.

See you next week.


-- Jim, Dona, Ty, Jess, Ava and C.I.

Editorial: Another turned corner!

Throughout the Iraq War, various liars and propagandists have shown up to proclaim a "turned corner" -- so many turned corners, in fact, that the cars not doing loops, it's doing squares.

Reality has a tendency to slap these people upside their face.

So Lt. Gen. Paul E. Funk II should get ready for his slap.

Image result for Lt. Gen. Paul E. Funk II

Or maybe Junior should prepare for a public spanking?

At any rate, Paul Jr. insists at ARMY TIMES:

The liberation of Mosul broke the back of ISIS in Iraq and gave the Iraqi military and the Iraqi people the confidence to work together and rid their country of this scourge permanently.
This military and social transformation materialized not only in the fight against ISIS but in every facet of civil society. We are beginning to see all aspects of the Iraqi security architecture working closely with the judicial system to ensure citizens’ rights are upheld. Arrests are conducted using warrants and executed by law enforcement organizations that are ethnically and religiously diverse, against suspects wanted for their crimes, not because of their political or sectarian affiliation.

It's not just that little Paul Jr. is full of s**t, it's that he's stupid and full of s**t.

And willing to flaunt it in public.

From the June 29th "Iraq snapshot:"

Iraq's legal system remains a joke.  Trials take mere minutes.  There are few who receive even adequate defense.  Evidence is not required for a conviction.  Women whose 'crime' consists of being married to a member of ISIS or someone suspected of being a member of ISIS can be imprisoned and sentenced to death.

Charges -- related to ISIS or otherwise -- are often based on personal grudges and not actual events.  The whole system is a mess. 

And on Monday, AP published a series of reports.  One explains, "Over three days in late May, the presiding judge of the counterterrorism court in Baghdad heard an average of 12-13 cases a day and sentenced to death at least 10 defendants accused of being Islamic State group members."   In another,  

 Any allegation of having taken up arms for the militant group can bring the ultimate penalty, even while the evidence is thin and cursory. The heavy reliance on informants is particularly glaring, given the potential that some are motivated by personal grudges. Informants never appear in court; their claims are passed to the judges in dry, written reports from intelligence officials with no hint of their possible motivation.
Thousands of defendants are rushed through the courts, with trials as short as 10 or 15 minutes and a third of the cases ending in the death penalty. Witnesses are rarely called and no forensic evidence presented, raising the likelihood of innocent people going to the gallows.

Read more here: https://www.kansas.com/news/article214547244.html#storylink=cpy

So, no, the legal world in Iraq is not as portrayed by Paul Junior.

And the coming together that he's seeing?

That's not happening.

More to the point, every member of the US Congress doesn't want it to as evidenced by their recent vote calling out the bloc that came in second -- the militias -- in the May 12th elections, calling them out and calling them terrorists.

Little Paul Jr. somehow missed that as well.

MEDIA: Hannah Gadsby is the 21st century's Jimmy Swaggart

Jimmy Swaggart is alive and well and living in the body of Hannah Gadsby.  We're not sure who's soul is in the 84-year-old husk of Swaggart today -- of if there is one in there --  but we're convinced he's in Hannah's body and we'll assume Prahka Lasa oversaw the transformation.

a new illst

"Preacher preaching love like vengeance, preaching love like hate," sang Joni Mitchell in her indictment of the hate merchants like Swaggart (1985's "Dog Eat Dog") and hate merchant was the most obvious term to come to mind for Hannah after watching her hideous NETFLIX special NANETTE.  It was supposed to be a comedy special, just like Swaggart's sermons were supposed to be about the love of God -- but both descend into hate.

And lies.

Especially lies.

Hannah likes to brag that she studied art history -- the same way Swaggart brags that he studied the Bible -- and thinks this makes her an expert on the topic.  She's just an imbecile.

Throughout the special, she likes to tear into Pablo Picasso.  At one point, she says she can't enjoy his work ever because he was with a 17-year-old woman.  17, she repeats.

Where's the history?

There's not art in her objection, but where's the history?

The woman she's referring to is Marie-Therese Walter -- referring to, and we'll come back to that later.  And, yes, the woman was 17 when she began her affair with Picasso.  She did that in France. The year was 1927 and she wasn't considered a minor and had more than reached the age of consent in France.

Those are called facts and, no matter how hard Hannah ignores them, they remain facts.

There was nothing untoward in 1927 about a 17-year-old having sex.  (In France today, the age of consent is 15.)

Marie-Therese Walter had an affair with Picasso which lasted approximately eight years.  She is the mother of their child Maya Widmaier-Picasso (born in 1935).

Again, these are facts and, apparently, they had to be ignored for Hannah Gadsby to deliver her sermon.  It's a sermon that a lot of The Water Cooler Set want to applaud.  Because it seems virtuous -- as did Swaggart's sermons to some.

But anyone with half a brain rejects sermons built on hate and sermons built on lies.

Hannah, she explains, hates cube ism as well.  It's why people won't call out Picasso, she insists, because he invented it.


Again, she claims to have studied art history.

Two people are considered the originators of cube ism -- Pablo Picasso and Georges Braque.  If the art world wanted, they could simply erase Picasso from the scene.  Braque could be hailed as the sole creator.  But that's not going to happen because Picasso created great art.

That was his job -- an artist.

Hannah thinks she's an artist too and maybe, in a world that can publish THE ART OF THE DEAL, she is?

That's a book co-written by Donald Trump.

And, no, a deal isn't art.  It might be advantageous, it might be enriching, but it is not art.

Donald Trump pops in Hannah's little special.  Remember, she's virtue signaling.

She declares that he sexually assaulted young women -- that he admitted to it.

Again, like Swaggart, she traffics in lies.

To quote Dave Chappelle, "Sexual assault? It wasn't. He said, 'And when you're a star, they let you do it.' That phrase implies consent. I just don't like the way the media twisted that whole thing. Nobody questioned it."

But, hey, it's Hannah so there's no truth and no reality basis to the special.

At one point, she whines -- yes, it is whining -- that after a performance on her last tour, a lesbian approached her to tell her that there wasn't enough lesbian content in the show.

She goes on to mock the woman by saying it was her (Hannah) on stage the whole time.

Well it was her, Hannah, in her life the whole time too, right?

Because she also reveals in the special that her grandmother recently asked her if she had a boyfriend.  Oops, she says, she forgot to out herself to Grandma!

Sort of goes to the criticism that the women -- the lesbian Hannah mocked -- was making and if Hannah had any self-awareness at all, seems like she'd grasp that.

But she doesn't grasp much of anything.  Except whining, yelling and complaining.

She claims she knows how to play with tension.

Nothing in the NETFLIX special backed that up.

She attacked Woody Allen because he's been accused by one hateful woman of assaulting her when she was a child.  That's the same Dylan Farrow, remember who publicly attacked Diane Keaton.  We're racking our brains over that, trying to think of any self-stated victim of assault who's ever gone after friends of their alleged attacker?

We're not remembering Patricia Bowman, for example, attacking friends of William Kennedy Smith.   Tina Turner never went after anyone who was friends with Ike. Tyler Perry, hundreds of others, we don't see this desire that Dylan has.  It's a sickness and may go to other sicknesses.  Strange that Mia rushed Ronan into therapy as a young boy because he said he wanted to be a girl but never apparently got Dylan the help she needed.

Hannah rails at Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby as well.  Which really left us confused.

The special was taped in Australia.

She's from Tasmania.

What is with this obsession with America?

She reminded us of the thankfully forgotten Australian blogger Luke Whatshisname who used to daily attack Bully Boy Bush for the Iraq War but never called out Australia's prime minister John Howard.  Now we called out Bully Boy Bush for the Iraq War, but we're Americans.  Luke was an Australian blogging from Australia and he couldn't call out his own country's prime minister for taking part in the Iraq War?

He struck us an inept and incompetent -- like Hannah does today.

There are many men in Australia who could be called out for assault.  Certainly, the one getting all the attention ahead of her taping of the special was George Pell -- Cardinal George Pell, her country's highest-ranking Catholic official -- and thought to be "the most senior Catholic cleric in the world to face such charges."

Or Yunxiang Gao who was arrested earlier this year on charges of assaulting a woman in Sidney? Or the 2017 convictions of Bailey Joseph Hayes-Gordon, Nicholas William Jackson, and Jacob Michael Watson in Brisbane for using a bottle to rape a friend who was passed out?

It's strange how these don't factor into her comedy or her rage.

In fact, to watch her special, the only one assaulted in or near Australia would be Hannah Gadsby.  By the end of the alleged comedy special, she's yelling about how she was raped by two men.

She also yells about a man who assaulted her.  He thought she was a man so he was going to hit her.  Then his girlfriend told him she was a woman and he explained he didn't hit women.  Then he figured out she was a lesbian (yes, he was a little slow) and did hit her.

She was coming on to his girlfriend, as she admitted.  In front of him, as she admitted.  We don't support violence but we're also aware that, at the end of a drunken night at a bar, if you come on to some guy's girlfriend, whether you're a male or a female, the guy may get violent.  (That's also true for some women if you come on to their boyfriend or girlfriend.)

Maybe if she wasn't screaming so much, she could take a breath and think for a moment?  If she did, she might realize that she's not as blameless as she thinks.

Her screams may make for great therapy but do not mistake them for comedy or entertainment.  (As she herself admits in the special, her routine certainly don't qualify as art.)

What they really remind us of is BOB'S BURGERS or, more specifically, a female producer who likes the idea of the  show but can't watch it because, whether suffering from a migraine or just hung over, every time she catches it, the character of Tina is yelling and screaming so she turns off the TV.

Tina is one element of BOB'S BURGERS.

Sadly, Hannah Gadsby is the sole element of NANETTE.

At least she names Nanette -- some woman she thought would provide a ton of material for her act but that didn't end up happening.

Instead, she goes after straight, White men.  And we're left to wonder whatever happened to WASP?

Wealthy Anglo-Saxon Protestant.

When did that fall out favor as a term?

She really hates them while insisting that she is not a "man hater" despite having been called that.

We think she is a man hater or either she's incredibly stupid.

We have spent years here -- 14 and counting -- calling out the acceptance of male as the norm.  We stand by that.

We have not, however, whined about, for example, Ed Burns.  Men are usually the focus of the films he directs.  His women, supporting characters though they may be, usually have several levels to them.  Were that not the case, we would certainly call him out.

But if 'good' Ed or 'bad' Ed write scripts, they're not the issue.  The issue is studios that repeatedly releases male focused films geared to male audiences.  Or NETFLIX which repeatedly airs comedy specials by men and few by women -- or, worse, tries to pass off RAGE WITH HANNAH as a comedy special -- insulting all women in the process.

As a feminist voice, we support many other voices being part of the conversation.  We're certainly not calling for any men to stop writing or creating.

But that's really what Hannah wants and that does, yes, make her a man hater.

She rails against Picasso, referring to his art as nothing but "putting a kaleidoscope flower on" the end of his "dick."  And women?  Well he made them nothing but vases for his kaleidoscope flower and that's what men have done too often, rages Hannah.

Sorry to break it to her, we know she doesn't enjoy sex, she describes her orientation as "tired," but a lot of people like to f**k.

That's why erotica and porn are so popular.  That's why a club is crowded on a weekend.

People like to f**k.

Art grapples with this desire and always has.

This is apparently news to Hannah.

If Picasso, as she insists, did nothing but what every other White male artist (she insists) has done before and rendered women as either virgins or whores, that had to do with his sexual desire.  And an artist -- male or female -- can pursue that in their work.  There's nothing wrong with that.

What's wrong is when it's lopsided, when only one side is telling a story.

Picasso, Roman Polanski, Bill Cosby, Vincent Van Gough, large numbers of men are name checked in her special.


None have a name except Hannah Gadsby and, of course, Nanette.  We never learn a thing about Nanette, though.

She is furious that women are not represented in the arts.

Yet, in her 69 minute special (sshhhh, no giggles, we're sure it was unintentional -- remember, she doesn't like sex, she's "tired"), she doesn't do a damn thing.

Georgia O'Keeffe's not mentioned, Frida Kahlo's not mentioned.

We're really f**king sick of people like Hannah Gadsby.

'Woah, the world is wrong, it's so wrong, women are oppressed by White men, let me now name and obsess over these White men.  Now let me talk about myself.  Wow, an hour later I've accomplished so much.'

We started the piece quoting Joni Mitchell.  We've now named checked Frida Kahlo and Georgia O'Keeffe as well.  That's puts us three ahead of Hannah Gadsby.

As Alice Walker's long maintained -- words we take to heart -- if you don't like the way the world is, create the world you would like to see in your writing.

Hannah is all about Hannah and it's an act of useless rage.  Rage can be useful, it can inform, it can motivate, it can do many things.  But Hannah's rage is that of a child throwing a tantrum.  She's failed to educate herself -- despite the repeated bragging of having a degree in art history -- and she's failed to develop any insight into the world on her own.

Let's drop back to Alice Walker to quote her:

But what I'm also sharing with you is this thought: The Universe responds.  What you ask of it, it gives.  The military-industrial complex and its leaders and scientists have shown more faith in this reality than have those of us who do not believe in war and who want peace.  They have asked the Earth for all its deadlier substances.  They have been confident in their faith in hatred and war.  The Universe, ever responsive, the Earth, ever giving, has opened itself fully to their desires.  Ironically, Black Elck and nuclear scientists can be viewed in much the same way: as men who prayed to the Universe for what they believed they needed and who received from it a sign reflective of their own hearts.
I remember when I used to dismiss the bumper sticker "Pray for Peace."  I realize now that I did not understand it, since i also did not understand prayer; which I know now to be the active affirmation in the physical world of our inseparableness from the divine; and everything, especially the physical world, is divine.  War will stop when we no longer praise it, or give it any attentional at all.  Peace will come whenever it is sincerely invited.  Love will overflow every sanctuary given it.  Truth will grow where the fertilizer that nourishes it is also truth.  Faith will be its own reward.

That's from "The Universe Responds" (LIVING BY THE WORD).

What would Hannah think of that?  In her current state, she wouldn't.  She wouldn't think at all.  She's so paralyzed by rage that she can't.  Which is how she fails to name Marie-Therese Walter.

She never names the woman.

Oh, she goes and on about how awful Picasso was to sleep with this 17-year-old woman.  But for a woman whose show is about how women and other minorities are rendered invisible, she fails to grasp that she's doing the same thing.

Was Marie-Therese Walter not a person?  Does she not deserve to be named?  If you think she was victimized, then we would assume you would want to name her.

But Hannah just wants to rage.  In doing so, she accomplishes nothing other than leaving the viewer feeling like Chandler on FRIENDS when he is trapped at the one-woman show WHY DON'T YOU LIKE ME! where the playwright (Alex Borstein, Lois on FAMILY GUY) yells at the audience in the episode "The One With The Soap Opera Party" written by Shana Goldberg-Meehan, Andrew Reich and Ted Cohen.  A lot of The Water Cooler Set mistakes Hannag Gadsby's virtue signaling and rage for a performance.  They fail to grasp that she's crossed over into Jimmy Swaggart territory and that they're being duped in the same manner as the foolish who would send money to Swaggart.


Jim: Roundtable time and we're face to face for a change.  Remember our e-mail address is thethirdestatesundayreview@yahoo.com and we can also be reached at common_ills@yahoo.com.  Participating in our roundtable are  The Third Estate Sunday Review's Dona, Ty, Jess, Ava, and me, Jim; Rebecca of Sex and Politics and Screeds and Attitude; Betty of Thomas Friedman Is a Great Man; C.I. of The Common Ills and The Third Estate Sunday Review; Kat of Kat's Korner (of The Common Ills); Cedric of Cedric's Big Mix; Mike of Mikey Likes It!; Elaine of Like Maria Said Paz); Ruth of Ruth's Report; Trina of Trina's Kitchen; Wally of The Daily Jot; Marcia of SICKOFITRDLZ; Stan of Oh Boy It Never Ends; Isaiah of The World Today Just Nuts and Ann of Ann's Mega Dub. Betty's kids did the illustration. You are reading a rush transcript.


Jim (Con't):  Okay, let's talk movies.  Rebecca?

Rebecca: Can summer try offering us something other than superheroes?  Have we not had enough comic movies in 2018 already?  We've had BLACK PANTHER, AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR, DEADPOOL 2, ANT MAN & THE WASP and we've still got VENOM, AQUAMAN and, in February of 2009, X-MEN: DARK PHOENIX.  Do we really need all of that?  It's so bad that the new MISSION IMPOSSIBLE looks like a return to reality by comparison.

Marcia: I think the burnout factor has set in.  I won't be surprised if AUQAMAN tanks.  The ones with a built-in audience tend to do well.  For the last decades, Aquaman has not had an established title, not a continuous one.  He's starred in limited editions comics.  Over and over.  I really can't believe what it took to get Wonder Woman, a comic book star, to the big screen by contrast to how easy it was for Aquaman.  I mean Batgirl is more popular than Aquaman.  Most DC characters -- male or female -- are.

Cedric: I agree and I wonder about VENOM too.  I'd like it to be a hit for Tom Hardy.  But you've got the issue of does it have a wide audience and also the issue of Michelle Williams has turned off a lot of people with her antics.  I do wonder why a Venom or Aquaman gets a movie before a Batgirl, Black Canary, Huntress, Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, Storm, She-Hulk or Spider-Woman.

Marcia: And, excuse me, Storm deserves a film.  You can strip her out of The X-Men as easily as you do Logan.  She's got a whole backstory that, like her powers, is hugely impressive.

Ann: Well it's not just the movies.  Look at THE CW.  They've got GREEN ARROW, THE FLASH, BLACK LIGHTNING, SMALLVILLE before they were ready for SUPERGIRL.  And then there's the way the big team of LEGENDS OF TOMORROW is basically men.

Cedric: Which is like the nonsense of DEADPOOL 2 where they killed off Vanessa and they argued it was okay for two reasons -- one, she comes back to life at the end and, two, they have so many other strong women in the film.  First, that doesn't excuse it, they're sidelining her for the entire movie.  Second, they didn't have a lot of other strong women.  Even if you include Leslie Uggams supporting character Blind Al, she's only one of three.  And there are what, 12 or 13 strong male characters in the film?  No, it doesn't even out.

Stan: And don't forget the Marvel universe on NETFLIX.   You've got THE PUNISHER -- was anyone really asking for that suck ass series?  No.  But it's a male character.  And you've got LUKE CAGE, IRON FIST and DAREDEVIL.  That's four Marvel shows that revolve around men.  You've got one that revolves around a woman: JESSICA JONES.  I don't understand why NETFLIX doesn't get slammed the way the movie studios do for its own failure to create female super hero programming.

Jim: Agreed.  Now you and Rebecca saw a film that wasn't a superhero film and you loved it, right Stan?

Stan: Right, SORRY TO BOTHER YOU.  We both loved it.

Rebecca: Stan notes it in "Hit comedy of the summer?" and it's a film that actually had something to say, an actual point of view.  Imagine that.  Alan J. Pakula may be dead but riveting films of interest still exist.

Ann: And after Stan and Rebecca praised it to us, Ruth, Cedric and I went and saw it.  See SORRY TO BOTHER YOU.

Ruth: It is hilarious and dark and has a point of view.  It is a great film.

Jim: An e-mail from reader Danny Y notes that he's glad we've upped our book coverage community wide.  Now, here, we just keep a running tally of the community sites' book reviews.  Mike, you did one on Saturday, "Media critiques -- Nora Ephron's SCRIBBLE SCRABBLE."

Mike: Right.  There's a lot of backstory on this.  First of all, we know everyone wants more book coverage.  So ideally we're going for one book review at a community site a week.  Second, Martha and Shirley do an end of the year piece on books the community loved.  There's been confusion regarding that.  Does the book have to have come out that year?  No.  If enough people want to vote for THE AGE OF INNOCENCE or THE GREAT GATSBY or whatever, that book can make the list.  So we're not just doing newly published books.  It's been a pretty varied list of books that we've covered -- both in terms of authors and genres.

Dona: I'm going to get them in here:
"Judy Garland (the biographies)" -- Kat.
"UNCOMMON TYPES: Let's kill whomever taught Tom Hanks to type" -- Elaine.
"Anne Sexton: THE COMPLETE POEMS" -- C.I.
"Charlotte Chandler's MARLENE" -- Elaine.
"A sexist woman writes She's a Rebel and distorts music history" -- Ann.
"barbara ehrenreich's 'natural causes'" -- Rebecca. 
"Weight Watchers New Complete Cookbook" -- Trina.
"Blackfish City" -- Marcia.
"THE CHICKEN CHRONICLES by Alice Walker" -- Ruth.
"Harry Belafonte" -- Mike.
"THE SAME RIVER TWICE (Alice Walker)" -- Isaiah.
"Dancing with Demons: The Authorized Biography of Dusty Springfield" -- Marcia.
"Good for Jimmy Stewart, bad for readers" -- Stan.
"Conversations with Toni Morrison" -- Marcia.
"Forced Into Glory: Abraham Lincoln's White Dream" -- Ann.
"He Ran All The Way" -- Trina.

Dona (con't): So, with Mike's Nora Ephron review, that's 22 pieces on books.  And that doesn't count the pieces that make it into the community newsletters.  So far, C.I.'s the only one who's noted poetry.  I don't know if that'll change.  Bigoraphies are big and so is non-fiction.  So far, Marcia's the only one who's covered fiction.

Ty: And that's always been our short coming, community wide.  But to correct something that Jim said, we do have a feature we do hear on books.

Jim: Oh, that's right!

Ty: Yeah, we need to do one this edition.  So far, we've had "10 to Read (Rebecca)," "10 To Read (C.I.)" and "10 To Read (Jim)" and "10 to Read (Dona)."  We need to do another one this edition.  Cedric, can we grab you?

Cedric: Sure.

Dona: Actually, can we do Cedric and Marcia this edition?  I thought we had done Marcia and passed C.I. a note after I couldn't pull it up while Ty was speaking.  C.I. wrote back that Marcia did a list last October, before we started this feature.  So, Marcia, could we repost that or could you look at it and see if you wanted to update it?

Marcia: Absolutely.

Dona: Thank you. 

Jim: Let's stay with art and entertainment for a moment.  Ann, you've written about ABC's upcoming THE CONNORS.  You don't plan to watch.

Ann: No, I don't.  Sara Gilbert proved to be as big an ass as her real-life sister.  As fake too.  Had she kept her damn mouth shut, I'd be watching.  But her need to go on her lousy talk show and trash Roseanne Barr?  F**k you, Sarah.

Stan: And I agree 100%.

Jim: Okay, let's pull in Isaiah, Betty, Cedric, Ty and Marcia.  Roseanne was fired by ABC for a Tweet that called Valerie Jarrett a cross between the Muslim Brotherhood and Planet of the Apes.  Thoughts?

Isaiah: I don't think Valerie looks like an ape or a monkey.  I also didn't realize she was African-American.  I've drawn her for years in my comics -- she was my favorite character during Barack's administration -- and I thought she was Persian.  I can completely believe that Roseanne did as well.

Cedric: The comment didn't bother me at all.  It still doesn't.  It may have been a bad joke, it may not have been, but it didn't strike me as racism.  The guy who played Kramer on SEINFELD screams the n-word at people in a club and no one pulls SEINFELD off the air.  The reaction to her Tweet was nonsense.  It had to do with her support for Trump and her success and the determination to silence her.  That's reality.  If anyone reading is unaware, all of us speaking right now on this topic, we're African-American -- or Black, as Betty prefers.

Betty: I do prefer it.  I didn't think the Tweet was funny.  I saw it as going for funny.  I think it missed.  I didn't think it was racism -- nor did I take offense when Red Foxx used to call Aunt Esther a gorilla on SANFORD & SON.  It was an attempt at a one liner and it failed.  To me it was not the end of the world and I also, sorry, thought Valerie was Persian.  I knew she was from Iran.  I assumed her parents were Iranian.  Sorry.

Marcia: First, I loved the reboot.  It was funny and dealt with real issues.  I didn't think the Tweet was racist.  Like Ava and C.I., I do see how some people could believe it was racist and intended that way.  I'm not someone who has to leap to negative conclusions about everyone.  The ridiculous response to the Tweet is part of the nonsense I just shake my head at these days.  We're so eager to be offended and outraged.  The same thing said by someone else and we're not offended but let Roseanne say it . . .

Betty: Or Donald Trump.  They throw a fit over everything.  Barack Obama goes on THE TONIGHT SHOW and makes fun of Special Olympics particpants.  No one treats it like the end of the world.  Trump supposedly makes fun of the disability of a reporter and it's time to be outraged.  Did he make fun of the disability?  I don't know that he did. I know everyone jumped to that conclusion.

Elaine: I want to make a wider comment. I'll wait until we're done discussing Roseanne.

Jim: Okay.  Ty?

Ty: Roseanne is not racist.  She is very big on Israel.  I disagree with her there.  I support the rights of Palestinians.  I can disagree with her politically and not think she's a monster.  I didn't find the Tweet offensive.  I did find Samantha Bee calling Trump's daughter a "feckless c**t" to be offensive.  But I saw it as an attempt at a one liner, like someone said earlier, Marcia?

Marcia: It was Betty.

Ty: Thank you.  As Betty said, it was a one liner.  I think it failed but I saw what she was going for and didn't see it as racist.  I did find it telling that Amanda Marcotte jumped all over Roseanne and that only Ava and C.I. had the guts to point out that, in 2008, Amanda was not only ripping off the work of African-American women, she was also publishing a book that used racist illustrations -- not to comment on the racism.  It had African male 'savages' attacking 'poor' blond women.  She's a f**king racist, Amanda Marcotte.  How dare she slam Roseanne.

Stan: I'm glad we're having this discussion.  It was an over-reaction and it was an attempt to silence her.  If she hadn't been a Trump supporter, she would have gotten a pass.  Can we throw to C.I. because I know she's got something to say here.  She called ABC to begin with, including for failing to have a back up in place.

C.I.: Okay, Stan's talking about the day the news broke that she was fired, Roseanne was fired.  It was the stupidest thing in the world.  It was really stupid for ABC to do.  I noted in real time that they could continue the show without Roseanne, pointing out how NBC changed VALERIE'S FAMILY to THE HOGAN FAMILY.  ABC failed to do that.  When other shareholders agreed with me that ABC had betrayed them, when the grumbling was loud, the stupid idiot who cancelled the show was told she better get her damn ass in gear or she'd be fired.  At which point, stupid idiot tries to put together THE CONNORS.  By then it was too damn late.  Sara Gilbert had weighed in.  ABC should have a spin-off in place.  ABC should have spoken to the cast and told them, "Shut the f**k up."  No one had to tell that Laurie Metcalf or John Goodman because they're decent people.  Sara Gilbert isn't decent.  She's an actress who would have no career today without Roseanne Barr.  And Roseanne didn't care that Sara was gay.  Others did and that's one reason Sara had so much trouble after Roseanne went off the air in the 90s.  That and she's a bit of a bitch and has that reputation.  She thought she was the star of POISON IVY -- Drew was the star -- and she thought it was going to give her a movie career.  It didn't.  She had no career.  She was lucky to find herself on that awful talk show that's only on the air because it's cheap to make.  Sara Gilbert is part of the cheapening of America.  Soap actors are out of work because of trash like Sara.  Maybe she thinks it's a fair trade since she couldn't get any work either -- not as an actress. So she shoots off her stupid and ungrateful mouth and the result is about 70% of the peopel feel like Ann does: they aren't going to watch the show because  of her trashing Roseanne on that stupid show THE TALK.

Ava: Which also exists to give Julie Chen a job.  Let's be honest about that.  Julie's not talented either.  She just married a man who runs a TV network.

C.I.: True.  ABC should have had a plan in place before stupid idiot cancelled the show.  It was the number one show ABC had.  Channing Dungey --

Stan: Who does look like an ape.  I'll say it.

C.I.: Channing Dungey is president of ABC entertainment.  Her job is to protect the ratings.  She wants to dump Roseanne, then do it right.  Stupid f**king idiot didn't know what she was doing and cancelled the show.  She's not fit to hold that job.  Again, NBC -- in the midst of a lawsuit with Valerie Harper -- knew how to play it.  CBS when they were in a lawsuit with Lynne Redgrave knew how to play it.  "It" being their job.  You want to dump someone, you dump 'em.  That might be right, that might be wrong.  But you damn well protect the ratings.  Channing was a stupid idiot who should be fired.  A spin-off wasn't even considered by her.  She's that damn stupid.  Before she announced the cancellation, she should have done her job by securing a spin-off.  All the actors were going to get paid -- they had pay-or-play contracts.  They were going to get paid.  ABC was going to pay for the second season without an episode filmed.  What a stupid idiot Channing Dungey is.  She was willing to waste millions.  She's there for one reason.  It's not to win awards -- and she didn't deserve a Crystal Award -- apparently, there's no one else to give them to now so she got one in May.  She's there to make money, that's all ABC cares about and those of us with stock expect her to make money for us.  She screwed up by not having the spin-off in place -- she hadn't even thought of it -- before the cancellation was announced.  She further screwed up by not telling Sara Gilbert to keep her thoughts to herself.  Now, as ABC's own polling shows, Sara looks like an ungrateful bitch, that's how the public perceives her, and Ann's opinion is that of 70% of people polled by ABC about the upcoming series.

Stan: And the woman looks like an ape.  I'm saying it, not C.I.  And I'm saying because it matters.  Not just because she's ugly -- and, yes, Channing is ugly.  I'm saying it because as a woman who looks like an ape herself, she over-reacted to the Tweet.

Cedric: I agree with you, Stan.  And, to be clear, before Roseanne got in trouble for that Tweet, Stan was noting that Ryan Gosling looked like an ape.  It's not a Black related issue these days.  We've moved past it.

Jim: Ava's waiving to speak.

Ava: C.I. and I take notes so I had to make sure she was up to speed before I spoke, sorry.  I'm not touching on Stan's point -- anyone who wants to can.  But to get back to her actions, the ABC president of entertainment's actions, this was appalling.  ABC had nothing to show for 2018 except ROSEANNE.  It was their only real hit.  MODERN FAMILY is losing viewers.  BLACKISH has lower ratings now that it's on a different night.  THE MIDDLE wrapped up its final season.  What do they have?  They don't have Shonda Rhimes, she's moving to NETFLIX.  Her GREY'S ANATOMY?  Paying that hideous Ellen $20 million means GREY'S is no longer profitable.  That's why they fired Jessica Capshaw and Sarah Drew in March.  They couldn't afford them while paying that ridiculous salary to Ellen Pompeo.  CBS cancelled KNOT'S LANDING when it was still a hit show.  Why?  It was an ensemble show -- like GREY -- that had gone on for years -- like GREY -- which meant the cast was getting more and more money because each season they deserved a raise.  But it was no longer going to be profitable to pay Joan Van Ark, Michelle Lee, Kevin Dobson, Michelle Phillips, Nicolette Sheridan, Ted Shackleford, William Devane and possibly Donna Mills.  It wasn't worth it any longer because it was costing to much to make the show.  Channing Dungey previously cancelled ABC's highest scripted show -- LAST MAN STANDING.  She can pretend otherwise, but everyone believes it was because of Tim Allen's politics.  He's right-wing.  That's probably why she made no effort for THE MIDDLE to do another season -- Patricia Heaton's a right-winger.  Channing had let her personal politics and her industry stupidity determine ABC corporate decisions.  She's refused to pay attention to the bottom line.  She should be fired immediately.  Instead, she's been put on notice that she better turn ABC around this fall or she will be fired.  She should have been fired the minute she cancelled ROSEANNE with no back up plan.  She's a stupid f**king idiot who's not fit to run a network.

Stan: And she looks like an ape.  Is it because of her race?  I don't think so.  Her sister Merrin doesn't look like an ape or a monkey.  But, as an African-American, I'll note one more time that Channing Dungey looks like an ape.

Jim: Okay, Elaine?

Elaine: We were talking about the reaction to Roseanne's original Tweet, how it was so outsized compared to Michael Richards -- he played Kramer on SEINFELD -- to his actual behavior, yelling the n-word at African-American customers at a comedy club.  And Betty was noting how Barack Obama made fun of Special Olympics participants on an episode of THE TONIGHT SHOW and it wasn't the end of the world.  It wasn't even a 24 hour cycle story.  We have a real tendency, as a people, to assume the worst of those we don't like and to give the benefit of the doubt to those we do like.  We need to take a look at that and ask ourselves why that is and how we can address it.  Ava, Kat, Betty and C.I. and I were talking about that recently.

Kat: I'll share that I was convinced we were all about to be hauled off under Bully Boy Bush.  What the corporate media and others now tell us is Alex Jones-ish and out of bounds?  Matthew Rothschild was writing about at THE PROGRESSIVE under Bully Boy Bush.  He was all into reporting on the round ups that were coming and the FEMA prisons and blah blah blah.  And I bought into it.  Let's stop pretending about what happened and that we have been as flat out nutty and insane as anyone could accuse Alex Jones as being.  I should note that I only know of Alex Jones from the corporate media so they may or may not be distorting him.  I'm not trying to attack Alex Jones.  I am trying to note that what he's accused of by the corporate media, those types of actions and claims had a huge reception on the left when Bully Boy Bush was in the White House.  And we were told by many that Paul Wellstone's plane crash wasn't an accident, I mean, I can go over it all.  And it did play with mind and it did screw my thinking.  Of course, the reality is Bully Boy Bush is such an idiot, it's hard to picture him planning anything.

Betty: And our answer to that in real time was to make Dick Cheney the pupateer, secretly in charge of everything.

Ava: And just as we go out of our way to see the worst in someone we don't agree with, we go out of our way to excuse, minimize and justify behaviors in others.  It's why so many allowed the Iraq War to continue under Barack Obama.  And when he sent troops back in, in 2012, we were the only ones -- C.I. and I -- screaming our heads off.  Even Tom Hayden ignored that aspect of Tim Arango's report.  That should -- Intentionally ignored, C.I. just mouthed.  Correct, Tom intentionally ignored it.  That should have been a debate topic.  As September wound down, Tim Arango of THE NEW YORK TIMES gets into print the fact that Barack's sent US troops back into Iraq while claiming to have ended the Iraq War and not one damn moderator dares to ask about that in any of the presidential debates.

Trina: They didn't want to know.  They made that clear -- the press.  They oohed and ahhed over Barack like he was their newborn infant instead of holding him accountable.  It was disgusting.  As bad as Donald Trump is, at least when he does the things Barack repeatedly got away with, we're allowed to feel outraged.

Ruth: And the Tom Haydens and the Laura Flanders told us repeatedly, in 2008, we could not hold Senator Obama accountable in the primaries, but we would in the general election.  Only they did not.  And then they never held him accountable in his first term or his second term as president.  Rebecca had an f-you post to Ms. Flanders recently and I have to say that I agree with her 100%.  Don't try to walk back over to the left now, Ms. Flanders.  We know you are a whore.  We know now your career depends upon lying to us, misleading us and trying to sheep-herd us.  We are not falling for it again.  F**k you.

Mike: I'm laughing.  I agree with Ruth but she's the last one I expected to say the f word.  What we've learned is that these people can only make money by controlling and conning us.  The Democratic Party's only going to give them money and support if they sheep heard us on over to the Democratic side at election time.  So to make their money, they will manipulate us.  That's what they do.  That's what they do every time.  And now we saw it and we need to remember it.  We need to remember that when we support these people, when we become their 'audience,' that's how they use us.  "Oh, I'm popular, give me money, DNC, and I'll steer the voters to you."  There are very few people you can trust.  I trust WSWS and BLACK AGENDA REPORT without reservations.  Otherwise, forget it.

Wally: Unless it's a community site!

Mike: Right.  Sorry.  I know all of you.  I've been through the battles with you so I know where you stand and, yes, I do trust all of you.  But Norman Solomon?  Forget it.  He pretended the Iraq War mattered.  And it did to him -- as long as Bully Boy Bush was in the White House.  Otherwise?  He couldn't care less.

Wally: Just to be clear on this, I just went to Norman Solomon's personal website.  He's got categories you can check.  I clicked on Iraq.  The last time he wrote about it?  2010 -- and then about the defense bill.  He's a fake ass.  I agree with Mike.  Norman's a fake ass, Amy Goodman's full of s**t, they can all kiss my ass.

Elaine: Okay, so let me ask, could any of them be forgiven at this late date?

Trina: I would say yes and I would say that what they'd have to do would be to take Iraq seriously and own up to how they stayed silent.  I'm not going to be tricked by them.  But I don't run on hate and I do believe in forgiveness.  But this goes back to Hillary.  'Poor Hillary,' she has to explain her vote.  It's a mistake, she voted for the Iraq War by mistake.  Well it would have taken more than words to prove that and all she ever offered were words.  So, from these hucksters, these Laura Flanders, it's going to take more than words.  They have all ignored the Iraq War.  You read what they published in 2005 and 2006 and you'd never believe that if the Iraq War was still ongoing in 2018, they wouldn't be calling it out.  But that's what happened.  Can they be forgiven?  If a serious effort is made to atone, if they truly make an effort to work on ending the war, I'm up to forgiving them.   But I won't accept Hillary's lip service and I won't accept their lip service.

Jim: Which makes me think of a point Jess made before Barack was even declared as a candidate for president so this must have been back in 2006 or 2005.

Jess: Legacy?  Yeah, they better think their legacies.  Tom Hayden died a useless drunk who spent his last years not trying to end an illegal war but trying to whore for the Democratic Party.  Danny Schechter turned himself into a disgrace by ignoring wars to carry water for Barack.  He'd send us e-mail after e-mail whining about how he needed to do that, he had to do it, he had to make money.  Danny lived high on the hog.  He could have done with a little less money.  He chose to whore that's what he'll be remembered for: whoring.

Jim: And on that note, let's wrap up.  This is a rush transcript.

They killed Hillary in 2008 (Ava and C.I.)

This is our part two.  (Here for part one.)

Hillary did a lousy job running for president in 2016.  We've never claimed otherwise.  In fact, the moring after the 2016 election, we wrote "So, uh, we weren't with her? (Ava and C.I.)."

Hillary of 2016 was hideous on the campaign trail.  We think it has to do with Hillary of 2008 having so many strong women on her campaign while, in 2016, she had so few.  Instead, she was surrounded by men.

And gone was the inspriring Hillary who showed up on the campaign trail and spoke to workers.  Even downed a boilermaker or two with them.  Instead, in 2016, Hillary was all about the coronation and trying to ape Barack Obama's 2008 campaing -- ape it and outdo it.  Which explains her celebrity obsessed campaign.

Hillary deserves blame for the lousy campaign she ran in 2016 and for being so out of touch with voters after winning so many over in 2008.

But Hillary should never have gotten the nomination.

We're not talking about the crooked DNC and the debate schedule or how Donna Brazile fed Hillary questions ahead of the debates.

We're talking about how Hillary had no shot in hell after 2008.

That's reality.  It's a reality that a number of us who supported her in 2008 were well aware of.

The 2016 crowd, uneducated and uninformed, want to tell you that Bernie Sanders -- damn him! -- ruined Hillary's chances in 2016.

No, he didn't.

Barack Obama did.

In 2008, Barack Obama ruined Hillary's chances and so did his supporters.

Barack mocked and made fun of her.  There was the infamous Annie Oakley dig he provided.  There was his attack on her ("periodically when she's feeling down, the claws come out . . .").  There was the whole brush it off gesture not to mention the delight his supporters had when he flipped the bird while speaking of Hillary.

Yeah, he may not have conditioned them to hate her but he certainly encouraged them to.

Remember this?

jon favreau

The man groping the breast of the Hillary cut out?  That's Jon Favreau.

He was working for Barack at the time.  He never got fired.  (He went on to be Barack's speech writer.  And today some even respect the scum.)  Now Hillary was repeatedly told she must disown this supporter or call out that one.

But Barack and his supporters could and did say anything about Hillary.

And about Bill.

Remember that?

Bill was a racist for his use of the term "fairy tale" to describe Barack's Iraq pose.

Bill was a racist and Hillary was a racist.

At THE DAILY BANTER, Oliver Willis was writing "Hillary White Power Clinton."  He was only one of many calling her a racist repeatedly throughout the campaign.  John Aravosis claimed she sounded like David Duke.

And eight years later, after she was called a racist constantly, Hillary was going to win the presidential election?


She was "likable enough," Barack said in the final debate he appeared in with her.  Said, tossed off, snarled.

As bad as calling her a racist was, it wasn't the worst they did.

They also said she called for the assassination of Barack.

Remember that?

She was being pressured to drop out.  She didn't want to.  She noted that it was only May.  She noted that her husband hadn't secured the 1992 nomination until June.  She noted, "We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California."

Immediately, she was attacked.

Marjorie Cohn, then the president of the National Lawyers Guild, attacked Hillary repeatedly for the comments including in a piece entitled "Hillary's Assasination Politics" that was posted everywhere online and included the following:

It’s astounding that a presidential candidate could verbalize such a thing when the collective American psyche still aches from the assassinations of John F. Kennedy, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King Jr., and Robert F. Kennedy. Many of us remember where we were when these heroes were shot. The pain we felt is palpable. We still suffer from their absence.
Clinton, evidently surprised at the ferocity of the reaction to her statement, made a half-baked non-apology a few hours later. She expressed regret that anything she said could have offended the Kennedy family. But she uttered not a word of repentance for her suggestion that Barack Obama’s death could inure to her benefit.
The response to Clinton’s invocation of the “A” word was swift and strong. The New York Times called it an “inexcusable outburst.” Keith Olbermann characterized it as “crass and low and unfeeling and brutal.” Noting that “the politics of this nation is steeped in blood,” he admonished Clinton: “You cannot and must not invoke that imagery, anywhere, at any time.”
Clinton’s remarks offer a look into her character. In Olbermann’s words, they “open a door wide into the soul of somebody who seeks the highest office in this country and through that door shows something not merely troubling but frightening.”
Before Friday, a groundswell of support for an Obama-Clinton ticket appeared to be building. But as New York state Sen. Bill Perkins, an Obama supporter, said when he heard Clinton’s comments, “My jaw just dropped — I think she just basically shattered her hopes of being named as vice president. To use the example of an assassination,” Perkins added, “I think, leads one to believe that she may be talking about something unfortunate happening to Barack Obama. Couple that with the other remarks she made recently about winning the white vote and her husband’s statements and I’d say something is seriously amiss.”

How, after Clinton’s ominous remarks, could Obama ever turn his back on her if she became his vice-president?

Marjorie mentioned Keith.  Here's what he went on air with.

Keith, some of the useless Debra Messings thought, was worth reTweeting.  Those of us who paid attention in 2008 know Keith is never to be quoted.  He is the worst trash in the world.  And he may hate Donald Trump but he damn well better own his part in electing Donald.  His little special comments attacking Hillary -- that was only one of his attacks on her -- in 2008 destroyed Hillary's chances for 2016.

Egged on by the likes of Keith, here is how Barack's supporters reacted in real time:

  1. what the heck? Is she actually asking someone to "take him out?". this woman is really sleazy and strange.
    Posted By: jimmy | May 23, 2008 at 04:10 PM
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  2. What a weird thing to bring up..the assasination of Bobby Kennedy...
    Posted By: J.Ortiz | May 23, 2008 at 04:11 PM
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  3. Can anyone say that she isnt trying to quietly tell one of her nutty supporters to knock him off! I'm sorry but youjust dont bring that up when emotions on both sides are so heated! She just showed her lack of judgement in full force! If this doesnt trigger the Super's to get her off the stage, I dont know what else will!
    Posted By: She is Mental! | May 23, 2008 at 04:11 PM
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  4. Hillary the Divider at it again...the most disgusting thing EVER uttered in a political campaign. This woman is scum. But I'm sure it's the media's fault.
    Posted By: HATINGHILLARY | May 23, 2008 at 04:11 PM
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  5. This woman has no decency. There is no way in hell that she should be "given" the vice presidency. HRC does not embody the new politics of Obama.
    Posted By: MacGuffin | May 23, 2008 at 04:12 PM
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  6. OMG, I just can't believe what she's saying. Is she saying "If he gets assassinated, I'm there baby, All mine! I'm not wishing he gets assassinated but at least I have something to keep me in the race."
    Posted By: Aden | May 23, 2008 at 04:12 PM
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  7. I think she is a sociopath! Really! How cold :(
    Posted By: snippet | May 23, 2008 at 04:12 PM
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  8. Wrap it up Super Delegates. She may just decide to hire the hitman herself. No Veep for you.
    Posted By: Super Delegates? | May 23, 2008 at 04:12 PM
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  9. Do we need further evidence that this woman is mentally unstable? If any other candidate for any office made this type of statement during their race, they would be asked to leave the political race.
    Posted By: chs 1965 | May 23, 2008 at 04:12 PM
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  10. Just when I think she cannot sink any loewr, she does. Super Delegates, end this thing now. She is an embarrasment!!
    Posted By: Susan | May 23, 2008 at 04:12 PM
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  11. Yes, and while we're at it, let's all recall just how well the Democrats fared in that same 1968, after their long, divisive primary season. THEY LOST -- BIG. No thanks, Mrs. Clinton. End it NOW! Go home.
    Posted By: No Thanks | May 23, 2008 at 04:13 PM
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  12. How low will Hillary go? So much for not embarrassing the SD's. She is truly mentally unstable. Desperate, truly desperate.........
    Posted By: mikey2020 | May 23, 2008 at 04:13 PM
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  13. I thought I had seen her at her lowest...guess I was wrong.
    Posted By: scott | May 23, 2008 at 04:14 PM
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  14. Oh My God! That is a horrible thing to bring up when you are talking about the potential first African American President! Hillary is out of control! WOW! I mean did she really just say that? Its almost too stupid to believe!
    Posted By: Fargo | May 23, 2008 at 04:14 PM
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  15. I thought I had heard just about the worst of the worst from Clinton the past month BUT this is rock bottom. I sure hope Keith Olbermann picked up on this comment and reams her a new a.....hole.
    Posted By: mary | May 23, 2008 at 04:14 PM
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  16. This woman is truly evil. It's bad enough that she's trying to break the rules on Florida and Michigan that she herself pledged to abide by. Now this? This is not politics--it's sick.
    Posted By: VDS | May 23, 2008 at 04:14 PM
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  17. As far as I'm concerned, her campaign is now over.
    Posted By: David | May 23, 2008 at 04:14 PM
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  18. Ok at the risk of sounding ignorant, I really don't understand the association between Kennedy's death and her staying in?? Can somebody explain to me? Especially at a time when Ted Kennedy was just diagnosed with Cancer? Is this woman well?
    Posted By: Mike | May 23, 2008 at 04:15 PM
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  19. Either this statement was made out of dumbness or poor taste. Neither is appealing.
    Posted By: Nebraskan | May 23, 2008 at 04:15 PM
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  20. Really Joan ? Stating that I'm staying in the race because my opponent may still be executed is just a misinterpretation? Please use that rationale in real life and see how it looks. What if Tiger Woods is leading by 20 strokes and the second-place player publicly says that there is still hope because people have died on the golf course before?
    Posted By: Akif | May 23, 2008 at 04:15 PM
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  21. If you actually listened to the whole interview, you would note that her reference to RFK was only to point out that having the primary season go into June is not that uncommon, historically. It was in NO means an veiled attempt to say that "something could happen to Obama." Ya'll are ridiculous.
    Posted By: Cleveland | May 23, 2008 at 04:15 PM
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  22. WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?! My god...I keep telling people (half tongue-in-cheek, mind you) that she's staying in because she's counting on an assassination. I didn't expect her to come out and explicitly say it, for Christ's sake.
    Posted By: Ben | May 23, 2008 at 04:16 PM
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  23. Wow. What a stunningly irresponsible thing to say. She is destroying her legacy with real gusto now... those that care about her, need to convince her to bow out of the race immediately while she still has a political career.
    Posted By: DogBitez | May 23, 2008 at 04:16 PM
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  24. Be afraid Obama, very, very afraid . . . and double the Secret Service detail. The Arkansas mafia is on the loose again. Obama Foster?
    Posted By: LookAtHerPast | May 23, 2008 at 04:16 PM
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  25. Disgusting- she knows exactly what she is doing. I would NEVER vote for this ego-driven meglomaniac.
    Posted By: Scott | May 23, 2008 at 04:16 PM
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  26. Joan obviously knows no history, since LBJ was elected in 1964 and RFK was killed in 1968. The fiasco in Chicago cost HHH the election along with the lack of support from clean Gene.
    Posted By: warren | May 23, 2008 at 04:16 PM
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  27. WTF!!! I have been trying hard not to say anything bad about this presidential candidate...but now this tops the cake!!! Sure she could keep running until the end of the primary season. But nothing and I mean NOTHING should be given to her in the form of V.P, Supreme court or anything to do with government!!! This B*** has lost it!!! I am a woman and at this point, this minute I have lost ALL respect for Hillary Rodham Clinton!!!
    Posted By: deme in cali | May 23, 2008 at 04:17 PM
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  28. I guess her losing had everything to do with Sexisim, and nothing to do with unbeleavable stupid statements like that! What a jackass! It may be time to really end this thing! Its not funny anymore when you get stupid statements lik that out of a desperate crazy woman looking out for only herself!
    Posted By: Jackie | May 23, 2008 at 04:17 PM
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  29. Self-assassination. She is finished in politics, or should be. The line forms here to oppose her for her Senate seat.
    Posted By: TrueBlue Hussein | May 23, 2008 at 04:17 PM
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  30. This is an outrage.
    Posted By: ellen | May 23, 2008 at 04:17 PM
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  31. She truly is a sick woman. She has no place in the White House or any other government body.
    Posted By: Jim | May 23, 2008 at 04:17 PM
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  32. Joan, How did you come up with that explanation? Why would she mention the assassination instead of the country coming together? I think Hillary's tactics must be rubbing off on her supporters. She would do anything to win and I mean anything!
    Posted By: Annette | May 23, 2008 at 04:18 PM
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  33. And there you have it. This is the kind of trash that we get fooled by every election and we send them to run our country and look out for our children's future.
    Posted By: Bill | May 23, 2008 at 04:18 PM
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  34. There goes VP nod foh sho.
    Posted By: HM | May 23, 2008 at 04:18 PM
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  35. David Gergen, who briefly served as an advisor to Bill Clinton, said it best when asked about whether Barack Obama should have Hillary be the Vice-Presidential nominee. Gergen noted that if Obama chose Hillary to be his Veep, he'd better hire a food taster.
    Posted By: D.GOLDMAN | May 23, 2008 at 04:18 PM
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  36. Every time I think she cannot stoop any lower, she proves me wrong. Hillary Clinton is despicable.
    Posted By: DMWhipp | May 23, 2008 at 04:18 PM
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  37. I wonder what his children (perhaps still supporting her) think about that FASCINATING comment.
    Posted By: | May 23, 2008 at 04:18 PM
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  38. Hillary should drop out because Chris Matthews says so.
    Posted By: andre | May 23, 2008 at 04:18 PM
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  39. Hillary should be removed from her campaign for saying this. SHE HAS LOST HER MIND! The lowest, most desperate thing I have ever heard of in a campaign.
    Posted By: PN | May 23, 2008 at 04:19 PM
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  40. This is the most disgusting thing I've ever heard in a political campaign. Wow, just wow.
    Posted By: JS | May 23, 2008 at 04:19 PM
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  1. That is just the most unbelievable thing someone could say. "Hey.. maybe someone will shoot him and I will be ready to step in to save the party. Ya never know... It's happened before, right"? She is sick!
    Posted By: | May 23, 2008 at 04:19 PM
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  2. If anyone wold be plotting Obama's demise, it would be her!! Now there are rumours about her touting herself for the VP postition. What a desperate clutch for power. The woman is a megalomaniac and wants to drag her fornicating husband into the White House so that he can corrupt more interns. She will say and do anything to get the job. If Obama takes her on as VP, he just as well say ByeBye to the election.
    Posted By: Delta Dave | May 23, 2008 at 04:19 PM
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  3. Seriously, I have thought Clinton has mental problems for some time now. Her reality is not normal. This statement is just another indicator.
    Posted By: Pat | May 23, 2008 at 04:20 PM
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  4. Are you f******g kidding me???
    Posted By: natenyc | May 23, 2008 at 04:20 PM
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These were Barack supporters in 2008.

They're going to turn around and support her eight years later?


No, not in the numbers necessary to win.  Yes, Hillary got more votes than Donald Trump.  But she didn't get enough to win the electoral college and that's the system we have.  She was never going to get enough because of what happened in 2008 when so many were told so many lies about her.

They don't realize that it was all a con.  They don't know that these hucksters would show up eight years later backpedaling.

By then, it was too late.  The impression had been made.

Oliver Willis, for example, would write "Hillary Clinton says she's staying in because someone could assassinate Obama like   RFK."

And we find it galling that these people would be welcomed by the I'm Still With Her Crowd -- the Debra Messings, the Patty Arquettes, the Jamie Lee Curtises, all these stupid bitches who did nothing in 2008 to help Hillary.  They now promote the Keith Olbermanns as voices of wisdom.

Hillary's political career probably ended for good by May 2008.  And those who think otherwise, are kidding themselves.  She never should have gotten the nomination because eight years prior she'd been called a racist by Democrats (and those who posed as Democrats).  She was accused, eight years earlier, of trying to encourage someone to murder Barack so she could get the nomination.

That was not going to go away just because no one mentioned it eight years later.  The press, in 2008, treated it as gospel.

Nothing Bernie Sanders could say (or did say) in 2016 was as damaging as what Barack and his supporters had already done to Hillary Clinton.

They killed her in 2008.  If you don't know that, you're either too young or too stupid or maybe both.

We didn't support her in 2016.  We made clear in 2013 that we would not support her and why.  (We were not impressed with her Benghazi testimony.  We found it evasive and cruel, go read us in real time.)  But it's amazing how the Oliver Willises, the Keith Olbermanns, the John Avarosises, all these people who destroyed her with lies in 2008 were allowed to just declare for her in 2016 and no one was supposed to question them or question their attacks on her eight years earlier.  They weren't just against her in 2008, they portrayed her as a criminal, an insane criminal.

We don't forget that.  And when people think we're too hard on Debra Messing or whomever?  We don't care.  The Debra Messings treat these men who destroyed Hillary in 2008 as though they're gods today and at the same time the Debra Messings want to pretend like they're for Hillary.  No one who is for Hillary can let the Olbermanns off.  Even David Brock had to write a mea culpa before Clintonistas let him saunter over to the Democratic Party at the end of the 90s.

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