Jim: Roundtable time. Remember our e-mail address is thethirdestatesundayreview@yahoo.com and you can also use common_ills@yahoo.com. Participating in our roundtable are The Third Estate Sunday Review's Dona, Ty, Jess, Ava, and me, Jim; Rebecca of Sex and Politics and Screeds and Attitude; Betty of Thomas Friedman Is a Great Man; C.I. of The Common Ills and The Third Estate Sunday Review; Kat of Kat's Korner (of The Common Ills); Cedric of Cedric's Big Mix; Ruth of Ruth's Report; Trina of Trina's Kitchen; Wally of The Daily Jot; Marcia of SICKOFITRDLZ; Stan of Oh Boy It Never Ends; Isaiah of The World Today Just Nuts and Ann of Ann's Mega Dub. Betty's kids did the illustration. You are reading a rush transcript.
Jim (Con't):Betty's kids did the illustration. You are reading a rush transcript. So a few complaints from readers. They feel that Ava and C.I. have delivered since the election week after week but that otherwise it has been a let down. I do get their point.
Dona:
Right. I'm just not in the mood, sorry. The election outcome was so
depressing. I once talked politics with Lauren Bacall and she spoke of
how she felt Adlai Stevenson could have been a "transformative"
president and how she still felt wounded by that election outcome that
sent Eisenhower to the White House. That was over fifty years after the
two elections. And it still haunted her. That's how I feel with
regards to 2024. It's been upsetting and it's been difficult. So, yes,
we have relied -- overly so -- on Ava and C.I. to keep people dropping
by while the rest of us took time off.
Betty:
And, in fairness to that, a lot of people needed to take time off. I'm
not talking here at THIRD. As a Black woman, the betrayal haunts me --
betrayal from the left. And, like a lot of Black women, I am figuring
out what I will now do and what I won't. I'm pretty sure we're going to
get into that in greater detail in a moment but I want to be clear that
-- regardless of race -- if the outcome bothered you, I do understand
the need to step back.
Ava: And we did a so-so piece for this edition so we're not carrying the edition.
Jess:
I like Ava and C.I.'s piece this edition but it's one of their
step-back pieces in their eyes. Too much focus, too much attention and
they write something that they hope lowers expectations. And readers
know that, it's how Ava and C.I. have written here for nearly 20 years
now. So I think that also factors in. Basically, since July, at least
July, they've had to do one hard hitting piece after another.
Kat:
Since we're talking out come, I'll share this. Sunday before the
Tuesday election, I was tired and I knew Ava and C.I. were as well. I
thought Kamala was going to win -- that the country was going to win --
and I said that I couldn't wait for the election to be over. And C.I.
said something to the effect of -- you all know my memory -- that in a
way it felt like when you were seeing someone die before your eyes and
you were doing everything you could and were exhausted and thinking that
maybe it would be easier after the passing but after the passing you'd
be even sadder due to the outcome.
Ava: I forgot about that. So, C.I., you thought she was going to lose on Sunday before the election?
C.I.:
No, I didn't. I thought it was possible but I was praying it wasn't
going to happen. I was tired and had more to do on Monday but I was
taking in Kat's comments about being exhausted and thinking that as
tired as I was -- the outcome could end up being Kamala losing and then
I'd be feeling like I preferred being exhausted and the race
continuing. No, I did not know she was going to lose. I had high hopes
but I knew she might lose.
Jim: So what do we do now?
Wally:
Focus on what we can do. Some aren't ready to work right now and some
may never be ready to work again on politics. I understand that. But
those who are, we can do simple and straight forward things. We can,
for example, leave Twitter and move to BLUESKY. That is in our power.
It's a needed first step to correcting a wrong. Elon Musk has power due
to owning Twitter. He misused that power. We must leave his
platform. We can create something much better at BLUESKY.
Trina:
It's a positive step and it clearly worries the fright-wing as
evidenced by conservative closet case Ben Smith's attack on BLUESKY that
C.I. called out in today's snapshot. And I've long noted at my site
that I did not name an outlet -- it was POLITICO -- because of Ben Smith
and how disgusting he is. He didn't just refuse to credit THE COMMON
ILLS, he wrote a disgusting e-mail to a right winger about C.I. and THE
COMMON ILLS and the right-winger forwarded Ben's e-mail to her. That's
when we all walked away from POLITICO -- that was his outlet at the
time. Some would note it -- C.I. didn't walk away from it -- but not
name the site. Now that C.I.'s noted what went down and since Ben's no
longer with POLITICO, I'm not opposed to noting them. But you need to
understand that people like Ben Smith are not the neutrals that they
pose as and that they write with a political slant -- he's a closet
conservative who has troubles with women.
Jim:
Ann, I'm turning to you for a number of reasons. First off, you were
raised a Green Party member. You always voted Green. This year, you
announced you'd be voting Democratic. You were very vocal about Jill
Stein being an embarrassment. You're also a Black woman and so there
were other revelations for you.
Ann:
I had no idea just how much racism there was in this country. None. I
knew it was out there. I liked to think it decreased with each year. I
mean, Cedric and I have two kids. I had thought they were growing up
in a country that was getting better and better. That's not the case.
Kamala was the most qualified candidate. And the White progressives are
forever showing up after the election talking about how Black women as a
group repeatedly vote for the Democratic Party nominee. Is Laura
Flanders semi-closeted? I can never keep up. She was an out lesbian
for years when she was doing a public radio program. Then she went to
work for AIR AMERICA RADIO and ran back in the closet. I think she's
out again but I can't keep track of her or her cowardly ways. She's the
worst among the White women. She'll start extolling Black women after a
presidential election and talking about how we saved the election for
the Democrat. That's her posing on air. She's not a Democrat and
didn't even vote for John Kerry -- though she pretended over night on
AIR AMERICA RADIO the night of that election that she had voted for
Kerry and that she was a Democrat only revealing a couple of years later
that she voted for the Green. At any rate, shove your garbage talk
about Black women back up your ass, Laura. She couldn't stay off
INSTAGRAM with her attacks on Kamala as the election approached.
Betrayal? Black women turned out for the Democratic Party over and over
and here was one of us, a couple of yards from the presidency, and you
could have elevated us and showed us support but instead you showed your
racism and ripped us apart.
Cedric:
I want to build on Ann's point in a way that people haven't.
Reparations. We supposedly believe in them. Now a big cash check to
every Black person? I don't think that's going to happen in my
lifetime. So I tend to advocate for scholarships and assistance and
investment into Black communities -- for reparations payments to happen
that way. I don't see most White people going for individual checks --
not even on the left -- because it becomes a wah-wah where's my check
too? Kamala Harris was the most qualified candidate in that race. And
if you truly believed in reparations on any level, you should have voted
for her grasping the historical importance of voting for the most
qualified candidate when she was Black. But various people on the left
-- a lot of them White -- refused to support reparations and put a Black
woman in the White House. So Laura Flanders, Amy Goodman, Katrina
vanden Heuvel and all you other White fake asses grasp that we see you
for the racists you truly are. And we don't need to hear from you and
we don't want to hear from you.
Jim:
I think Cedric's pulled us into the heart of this roundtable. We were
trying to approach it. Ruth you wrote down that you wanted to address
Gaza Freaks so I'm going to toss to you.
Ruth:
Something cruel and criminal has been taking place in Gaza since
October of last year. Many people became part of a movement to stop
it. The Gaza Freaks were the loudest and they'd pretend that they were
the first. They are, always, the first to turn people off to the
cause. That is due to the fact that they are off putting and crazy.
They worked overtime to elect Satan by advancing grifter Jill Stein
and/or advocating for Satan and attacking Kamala Harris. They did not
put the Palestinians first. They lied and told everyone not to vote for
Vice President Harris. Now Satan's headed back to the White House and
they want to pretend that's not their fault, they want to pretend that
Satan's decision to destroy Gaza is not their fault. Yes, it is. You
freaks cannot elect anyone but you damn sure can ensure that the wrong
person gets into the White House.
Isaiah:
And I'm not working with the Gaza Freaks. They're dishonest liars. I
will never work with them on any issue. If they're included, I'll find
another action to take part in.
Rebecca:
And that is the reaction. I've spoken out for the Palestinians since
college. I would often cry about the fact that they didn't get their
support they needed and that they were being slaughtered. We're going
back to college years. C.I. would talk realistically to me. She'd note
what could be done at this moment and what couldn't be done and why.
It went to the fact that the US people had a view of the Israeli state
and that they conflated that state with people being Jewish. It went to
our government's relationship with the Israeli government. When the
illegal Iraq War started, C.I. noted that this would help the
Palestinian people by educating Americans on occupations. October 7th
saw the Israeli government finally overplay their hand. And C.I. and
other non-Gaza Freaks shaped a message day after day that the American
people could embrace. And the shift is finally taking place. Enter the
Gaza Freaks. It's really over now. You would need people like C.I.
who know how to shape an argument and how to win support. And she's not
going to work with the Gaza Freaks. She's not the only one. COMMON
DREAMS, every weekend, tries to highlight some London protest for
Palestinians. They have to go to London because Gaza Freaks burned the
bridge in America. They put Donald Trump back into the White House and
no one's forgiving them for that. Nor should they.
Mike:
I'll jump in. I'm someone coming to the issue late. And I didn't have
strong beliefs one way or the other until October and the way that
coverage was addressing it. I cared about the Palestinians. CODE PINK
and it's ancient 'leadership' didn't make that happen. Amy Goodman and
her half-truths didn't make it happen. It was the people who led on it
for the first time following October 7th. They set new parameters and
they made real arguments. The Gaza Freaks? They worked for decades and
never managed to shift US opinion. So now they're back in charge and
America just doesn't care -- more likely just doesn't care to be working
with those fringe freaks. We still care about the Palestinian people.
But the Gaza Freaks ensured Trump got elected and, in doing so, they
ensured the deaths of Palestinians will continue.
Ty: The Gaza Freaks also threatened and bullied and attacked Black people -- especially Black women -- online. And that's not forgotten. It's not acceptable. And I'm not going to pet them on the head and act like they're cuddly and cute. They're racist, they're sexist and they're homophobes. And when Orange Cheeto rains hell down on them, they have only themselves to blame. They showed the Black community their true nature and we're done.
Stan:
I cover entertainment at my site but I do watch and learn. And there
were times something would be in the news and I could argue it was
entertainment related and cover it and using the tools C.I. repeatedly
accessed while writing at THE COMMON ILLS, I would get some e-mails
saying that they hadn't seen the Palestinian issue that way before.
But, like Mike said, it's going to need a full revamp at this point.
The Gaza Freaks took over and sent everyone running off over disgust
with the Gaza Freaks. It's a real setback for the Palestinian cause.
Marcia:
Let's remember that the Gaza Freaks includes people of Dearborn and
Hamtramck. Let's remember that these people are homophobes. I'm a
lesbian, that's not minor to me. These people have spent the last four
years in their respective cities getting into bed with the fright-wing
and working to destroy rights for LGBTQ+ people. In Hamtramck, from WIKIPEDIA:
On June 13, 2023, the city council introduced a resolution prohibiting the display on city property of all flags but the American flag and “nations’ flags that represent the international character of [the] City,” which many interpreted as an indirectly targeted ban of the rainbow flag on city property and sidewalks, which had previously been the source of controversy among some residents.[88] Following three hours of public comment, the council passed the resolution unanimously.[89] Mayor Amer Ghalib opposed displaying the pride flag, but former mayor Karen Majewski had supported displaying it.[90] The council also voted to remove two commissioners of the Hamtramck Human Rights Commissioner for flying the rainbow flag.[91][92][93] The move was criticized by senator Stephanie Chang, U.S. representatives Shri Thanedar and Rashida Tlaib, and Detroit mayor Mike Duggan.[94][95]
In response to a decision by the city council, multiple activist groups organized into a coalition opposing the flag restrictions. The founding group consisted of individual activists, AntiTransphobe Detroit, Michigan General Defense Committee, and the Hamtramck Queer Alliance. Notable speakers at the event were Dana Nessel, Rev. Strickland, Grace of AtA, and Josh of HQA.[96]
Marcia
(Con't): This isn't pie in the sky for me. I have a wife. We're both
Black. I have no sympathy for homophobes. But the Gaza Freaks are
homophobes. And the Pride flag flew continuously up until Hamtramck got
their all Muslim city council. And they decided to celebrate by
attacking LGBTQ+ people. A detail semi-closeted Laura Flanders will
never tell you. Apparently, she doesn't love her wife or feel the need
to protect her. The Gaza Freaks are on their own. They can rot in hell
and I won't work up a tear.
Elaine:
Here's the thing that boggles. Ralph Nader ran in 2000. His actions
put Bully Boy Bush in the White House. The response was that Ralph
became a pariah. Not just among Democrats, organizations that he had
started had to draw a line between him and them. In 2004, the Greens
ran on a safe state strategy to try to appease. They didn't appease
anything. Ralph resulted in the Iraq War. He won't own it but he's
part of the reason for it. So it's 2024 and the grifter Jill Stein is
back. How f**king stupid and uninformed were the Gaza Freaks? Starting
their Abandon Biden and then Abandon Harris 'movements.' There was
always going to be a backlash. They didn't care. And now you've got
people who don't care about the killing going on in Gaza. You don't take
the stand they did unless you're brain dead. I'm not on TIKTOK and
have never been but I want to repeat a point that's made by Tabitha of
TABITHA SPEAKS. These Gaza Freaks were all over TIKTOK attacking Black
women for supporting Kamala. Attacking them, attacking Kamala. How did
they think this was going to help the Palestinians? It's not. And
when you are leading a 'movement' entitled Abandon Biden and then
Abandon Harris, don't pretend you're trying to push them or nudge them.
You've declared you're not voting for them.
Betty:
Yet whores like Amy Goodman still promoted them in lying segments as
people trying to push Kamala. No, they weren't. Elaine, sorry, didn't
mean to cut you off. You're making important points.
Elaine:
You're right there was "Uncommitted" and then there was Abandon Harris
in the lead up to the general election and the press -- especially
beggar media -- repeatedly treated Abandon Harris as though they were
uncommitted. No, they'd already said they weren't voting for Kamala -- a
decision most in Michigan made when Donald Trump's boy Michael Flynn
visited them with a little cash and a lot of promises. Empty promises.
Jim: C.I., you've been looking at your phone. Did you want to say something?
C.I.:
All I want to say right now is thank you to Marcia. I was unaware that
Laura Flanders was part of the pile on effort to destroy Kamala. I
will add her to my s**t list but that's all I'm saying right now because
I have a series of e-mails from Laura that I never planned to speak
of. Her efforts that landed Trump back in the White House mean those
e-mails may no longer be private. I'm going to have to think on that.
Marcia: You are welcome and burn that b**ch's playhouse down, burn it down.
Jim: Okay, Betty, we need to wrap up so let's go to you.
Betty:
The Gaza Freaks harassed and attacked Black women. We, Black women,
were seeing the first Black woman to be a serious contender for the
presidency. And Gaza Freaks and racists like Amy Goodman and Katrina
vanden Heuvel couldn't let us have joy, couldn't let us celebrate. We
were attacked online for supporting Kamala. She was also the best
choice on Gaza. Black women saw what went down and racism and sexism
prevented Kamala from becoming president. We don't owe you s**t. We
marched with you, we protested with you, we lobbied our Congressional
reps with you. And here was the time for you to say, "Let's
reciprocate." But you didn't. And it wasn't because of where she stood
on Gaza. The Medea Benjamin's pretended it was but it's not why. And
the end result is you stabbed us in the back. Some Black women are done
being the free labor for the left. You showed no gratitude. You
worked overtime to embrace racism. Some of us will come back in a bit,
some of more slowly and some of us never. You revealed what you really
think which is that you will gladly take our slave labor but you will
never vote to elevate us to the post of president.
Jim: And that's going to be the final word. This is a rush transcript, thank you to Ava and C.I. who took notes.
