Monday, January 22, 2018


Jim: It's roundtable time.   Judging by your e-mails, you're ready for one.  On the topic of e-mails, remember our e-mail address is  Participating in our roundtable are  The Third Estate Sunday Review's Dona, Ty, Jess, Ava, and me, Jim; Rebecca of Sex and Politics and Screeds and Attitude; Betty of Thomas Friedman Is a Great Man; C.I. of The Common Ills and The Third Estate Sunday Review; Kat of Kat's Korner (of The Common Ills); Cedric of Cedric's Big Mix; Mike of Mikey Likes It!; Elaine of Like Maria Said Paz); Ruth of Ruth's Report; Trina of Trina's Kitchen; Wally of The Daily Jot; Marcia of SICKOFITRDLZ; Stan of Oh Boy It Never Ends; Isaiah of The World Today Just Nuts and Ann of Ann's Mega Dub. Betty's kids did the illustration. You are reading a rush transcript.


Jim (Con't): If there's one message in the e-mails that came in last week, it's "Time's up -- for self-indulgence."  Michelle Williams has hit her sell-by-date.  Stan, you were cc'd on a number of those e-mails, so feel free to take this topic -- you covered it in "Aziz and Michelle" and, Marcia, you wrote about it with "Michelle Williams sucks" so jump in as well.  Basic issue, Michelle didn't ask for money to do reshoots of ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD and then?

Marcia: Had a hissy fit that Mark Wahlberg did ask and did get $1.5 million.  He had casting approval in his contract.  They were replacing Kevin Spacey with Christopher Plumber.  So Michelle who wanted to do the reshoot for free suddenly is sucking on sour grapes, having a hissy fit and orchestrating a shaming of Mark Wahlberg until he forks over $1.5 million.  Best public blackmail of 2018.  She should win an award for greed and extortion -- and, as I note in my post, I used to love Michelle.  But she's a money grubber and someone who has no ethics at all.

Stan: I'd agree with that.  You don't ask for money for the reshoots and then you throw a little fit because someone else did and gets it.  And there's also the fact that greedy didn't want to do her reshoots on THE GREATEST SHOWMAN.  She's so greedy.  And she's such a f**king coward.  She orchestrated the whole thing, as she made clear once Mark gave up the money, but she did it from behind the scenes like a cheap little coward.  She hid behind others.  Her career's over.  She's what, climbing to forty, she's got nothing to show for it as a leading actress.  Reese Witherspoon, by contrast, was already storming the box office with films and had an Academy Award for best actress by the time she was Michelle's age.  It's over for Michelle.  American doesn't like greedy and she hijacked the MeToo movement to blackmail someone.  It's telling, isn't it, that she went after an actor and not the studio in charge of paying them.

Marcia: Trash.  That's all she is.  And she doesn't seem to realize that, in a country where the national minimum wage, is $7.25 and here's some pampered performer whining about millions?  Did she really think America was going to be on her side?  Stupid.  And who loves a blackmailer?  She should be ashamed.  Oh, how sad, the pretty blond is suffering.  Give us all a break.

Jim: Anyone want to offer a defense?  No?

Rebecca: No.  And I'll echo Ava and C.I. from last week's "Media: 'It's very rude of him,' she said, 'To come...'," I did not want to believe Michelle had anything to do with any of this but then along comes Michelle's statement and, yeah, she was hiding in the shadows running a shakedown.  What trash she is.

Trina: And I don't need to watch a festival of political.  It doesn't matter if I agree with you or not, I'm watching to (a) have some fun and (b) see acting honored.  If it has to do with your role, okay.  And I don't mind the Tibet shout outs that used to be required -- apparently, from what Richard Gere's said, a thing of the past now that Hollywood's so dependent upon China.  But I don't need your pretending how wonderful and woke you are.  Very few speeches at the Golden Globe covered it for an awards show.  I thought Alexander Skarsgard was charming.  I didn't feel that way about so many on the stage.  And it was all nonsense, the pretense to give a s**t.  They're wearing black?  Like Rose McGowan, I thought it was wallowing not standing.  Then they don't even invite Rose?  She should have been up on that stage making a statement.  That was the only one we needed to hear from, the one who showed bravery.  Third? Applauding Kirk Douglas when we all know who raped Natalie Wood.  I mean the BBC documentary couldn't say his name but they managed to cut to a theater with his name on it when Lana Wood's talking about the actor-producer who raped her sister.  But so many were standing and applauding Kirk Douglas.  It was embarrassing and shameful.

Dona: Trina, you and Ann were talking before we started this roundtable, and noting David Walsh at WSWS who doesn't appear to support MeToo or let's say he supports due process more.  And you were saying that people are now getting where he was?

Ann: Right.  I know I'd highlighted him at my site and noted I disagreed with some of his points but, like Trina and I were saying, the way so many are trying to hijack it, I'm sick of it.  I think the movement has killed itself.  I don't see anything about some whiney Michelle Williams wanting to whine that she was paid what she asked for -- which was nothing -- or this nonsense of Dylan Farrow -- which has nothing to do with the workplace, even if you believe her and I don't believe her.  It was one thing to unite around issue of the workplace.  But this nonsense is beyond stupid.  Dylan insisting she was molested by a man who, in what, 80 years?, has never been accused of molesting anyone else?  Go away, Dylan, just go away.

Kat: Oh, I'm jumping in now.  I can't believe her.  Her story doesn't make sense unless you know Mia's childhood desires which is what Mia put in 'Woody's' mouth.  Woody wouldn't tell Dylan -- as Dylan maintains happened -- that they can go to Paris together and be together.  Now it was Mia -- as Ava and C.I. pointed out, what?, three years ago -- it was Mia who wanted to go to Paris as a child.  It's all the lies she planted in Dylan's head.  I heard Dylan in that interview going on about what is more believable -- that she's telling the truth or that it was planted in her head?  And then we find out that she wanted some doll and asked if it was okay to lie because Mia wouldn't give her the doll unless she lied and then she says Woody did it and she gets the doll.  And then there's the lie that she was laying in that attic on her belly watching the train set -- the train set that wasn't in the attic but has to be in the attic for her lie to work.  I mean she's a liar.  Moses Farrow talks about how Mia would browbeat you into saying what she wanted and that's what happened here.  Mia was scorned and petty and wanted to get back -- as she'd already threatened to do.

Isaiah: The whole thing's a lie. And that answers the question of why Mia left the house.  Her lie is that she worried about her daughter and insisted Dylan never be alone with Woody.  Then in July he comes for a rare visit and she goes off shopping?  Concerned Mia's out the door to go shopping?  Of course, she went shopping.  As she constructed the con, it was clear to her that if she'd been present, people wouldn't have seen her so sympathetically.  They would have rightly been saying, if you were there, how did your ex ever end up alone with Dylan?  So she splits so that she'll be able to blame, the next day, the babysitters.  The whole thing becomes a set up and if Dylan hadn't been so damn pathetic and greedy -- I get it, Mia favored her birth children over her adopted children and she promised Dylan she'd be the star of Maureen Orth's VANITY FAIR article but instead she lets Ronan shine again.  So then Dylan starts her whining.  And, in fairness to her, she's lied for Mia for years and years, she should have been the take away from the article.

Ruth: I love how no one wants to talk about the anti-Semitism on display as these White Europeans -- Mia and Dylan -- go after the Jew boy.  I'm Jewish, maybe that's why it registers.  But Woody dealt with these charges decades ago and they were found to not be believable.  But looks who's back, Dylan Farrow, one of the ugliest women I've seen on TV this year.  And it's not enough that she lie about Woody, she has to try to shame everyone who's worked with him.  She says they are "complicit."  Whatever.  I am sick of her whining.  I am sick of her lying.  I am sick of society that indulges these baseless attacks on a Jew.  If he weren't Jewish, I doubt very seriously this would continue.  She would have been told to shut up long ago, as she should be.  There was no truth to her claims decades ago and she thinks we have to believe her and support her.  All I know about you, Dylan Farrow, is that you're ugly and you lie.  Go away.  In fact, let's hashtag that #GoAwayYouToo!

Wally: If I can jump in and get back to Michelle Williams, the whole thing about ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD is disgusting and I would hope that it would register in the artistic community.  What did Kevin Spacey do?  The first accusation, he's apologized but doesn't remember it -- no surprise, he was drunk.  That incident did not take place on the set of ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD or even while it was being filmed.  But Kevin, without any trial, was stripped from the film.  I think that's disgusting and I don't like Kevin Spacey.

Marcia: I agree with what you're saying about stripping him out of the film.  I'm more sympathetic to Kevin and I think a case can be made that anti-gay hysteria -- still  a part of our society -- played into the take down of Kevin.

Jim: And, for more on that, see Marcia's "Some thoughts on Kevin Spacey."  Okay, it's interesting how Michelle's greed has damaged the cause for a lot of people -- I mean, we probably had 700 e-mails on that alone -- and the always publicity seeking behavior or Dylan Farrow trying to latch onto MeToo has hurt it.  And then there's the attack on Aziz Ansaria.  We're getting tons of e-mails about that as well.  But to drop back to something raised earlier, Marcia and the minimum wage, I mean, when are we going to talk about the class issues shaping this?  And so many other issues but there's no discussion of class right now.  And Ruth's right, there does seem to be a targeting of a special class of men.  Jews, racial minorities and gay men.  And when Michelle decided to hijack the movement, again I believe Marcia said this, why did she go after Mark Wahlberg -- an individual -- and not the studio that paid him?

Ty: Exactly.  The fakery is getting on a lot of people's nerves.  When we go through the e-mails to our site, what I'm seeing is support for a fighter like Rose McGowan but disappointment and disgust with a lot of people trying to latch onto the movement and hijack it.  This was supposed to have been a movement that did address class issues -- what's more important than to be safe at work?  But instead it became another wallow in victimhood moment.  I'm gay and I'm completely offended to this day that a bunch of women stood up at the Golden Globes and refused to acknowledge the many men who have been harassed and assaulted and who have come forward.  I'm glad that C.I. and Ava addressed that but then they've been addressing very real issues of homophobia since they started covering the media.  A lot of the women making speeches at the Globes, I've never heard them say one thing about homophobia.

Elaine: As should be obvious, this is a work place issue.  This a workplace where the workers include children.  There are very few industries in the US that you can say that about.  And safety is important.  Dylan Farrow's claims are about what supposedly took place within her family.  How typical of that spoiled brat that she wants to come forward and try to steal the attention that should be going to the Todd Bridges, Anthony Edwards, Corey Haims of today, yesterday and tomorrow.  Which one of those self-congratulating bitches bothered to call out Nikelodian -- a children's channel -- for employing convicted pedophiles?  Rose McGowan, I agree with the ones e-mailing, she's done something and she's been a voice -- a very real voice.  These others?  No.  They've not done anything and they certainly haven't protected children.

Betty: Support!  Let me put in a Tweet:

  1. Workers are dying because OSHA can't do its job.

Betty: This should be connected with other issues of worker safety -- not with poor Michelle only got X millions for doing the film oh poor Michelle.  This is about a safe work environment.  We have a right to be safe at work -- that includes no harassment, that includes safety procedures.  But no one wants to talk about what's going on with OSHA and how many more workers are getting hurt on the job.

Rebecca: Agreed.  But I don't think it's the MeToo movement as in "me also" or "me as well."  It's become the Me! Look at Me! MeToo movement.  Class issues are being ignored, issues of work safety are being ignored, it's a bunch of campaigning to see who can pretend to be the greater victim.  And depriving or attempting to deprive someone of their ability to work?  That is what Dylan Farrow is trying to do.

Cedric:  And that's when so many went from supporting her -- or at least just rolling their eyes in silence -- to calling her out.  She has gone after Diane Keaton, Alec Baldwin, Cate Blanchett and countless others insisting that they are 'complicit' in her supposed abuse.  She's trying to make it impossible for anyone to work with Woody Allen.  We don't believe you, Dylan.  And you can't prove it.  And too many people who were present -- including your brother Moses -- contradict your lies.  But you're trying to destroy people when maybe the only one you should destroy is yourself?  If you can't find peace for a single event that you claim happened nearly 30 years ago, maybe you should consider falling on your sword to get some peace.

Jess: This was a pro-Dylan site, I want that noted.  Before she started speaking, we were pro-Dylan.  She started speaking and then we had to re-evaluate.  She's not believable and she's harmed her own case.  Why, when she had a lot of people on her side?  Because she's got a huge ego and is a narcy obsessed with herself.  She needs the whole world to say "We're with you, Dylan!"  That's never going to happen and that's before the little blond girl who didn't speak for herself emerged as the overweight, neurotic mess that honestly believes the whole world needs to focus on 1992.

Ty: And it's not just her, it's also Mia.  Her own behavior has made it clear that she's not 'the good mother' she presented herself as -- she abused her children, she beat them.  And she's also not above floating that Ronan might be Frank Sinatra's son -- which was insulting not just to Woody but to Frank Sinatra's widow.  Then there's Mia's homophobia -- she's anti-choice and homophobic.  Poor little Ronan won't come out of the closet because Mommy doesn't want to deal with the homosexuality.  It's hilarious that the closet case Ronan is urging women to 'tell your truth' while he can't even say the words "I'm gay" publicly because Mommy can't handle the gays, Mommy can't handle it.  Mia's a freak and a hate queen.

Jim:  We need to wrap up and Mike hasn't spoken yet so let me go to him.  I believe everyone's spoken otherwise except Ava and C.I. who don't want to speak in this because they might speak next time.  I also know Dona has something she wants to address.  Mike?

Mike: Meryl Streep knew.  I don't know why she's allowed to lie.  But I think it's pathetic that what remains of our unions are not holding her accountable.  For lying about Harvey Weinstein?  No, for going around promoting Katharine Graham who was a union buster.  The unions around today should be condemning her for not just her portrayal of Graham but also for her glorification of the woman in one interview after another and never calling her out for how she destroyed unions.

Jim: Good point.  Dona?  You wanted to address something.

Dona: Yep.  Last week's edition consisted of one piece only, Ava and C.I.'s "Media: "It's very rude of him," she said, "To come..." which has some insisting various things in e-mails.  Ava and C.I. think it's all about them?  We lean too heavily on Ava and C.I.  Etc., etc.  They were asked to cover a variety of topics.  The piece they wrote took hours to write.  When it went up, it was revolutionary.  Some of the points they made would be made by other outlets later in last week.  But they went out on a limb and needed it up when it was written -- this piece that they hadn't planned on writing and didn't want to write.  Had they waited, as others came forward on Monday afternoon -- say, Ashleigh Banfield, for example -- they would have to redo their piece to include these people.  It was a requested feature.  We weren't able to match their speed with other efforts so it was the sole piece from last week.  It is also our most read piece ever.  In one week, it was more read than pieces with over a million views since they went up years ago -- a million views over time.  This was huge and I'm glad they posted it when they finished it.

Jim: Okay, that's going to be it.  This is a rush transcript.

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