Sunday, May 01, 2016


 Jim: It's roundtable time again.   Judging by your e-mails, it's been way too long since we did a roundtable.  On the topic of e-mails, remember our e-mail address is  Participating in our roundtable are  The Third Estate Sunday Review's Dona, Ty, Jess, Ava, and me, Jim; Rebecca of Sex and Politics and Screeds and Attitude; Betty of Thomas Friedman Is a Great Man; C.I. of The Common Ills and The Third Estate Sunday Review; Kat of Kat's Korner (of The Common Ills); Cedric of Cedric's Big Mix; Mike of Mikey Likes It!; Elaine of Like Maria Said Paz); Ruth of Ruth's Report; Trina of Trina's Kitchen; Wally of The Daily Jot; Marcia of SICKOFITRDLZ; Stan of Oh Boy It Never Ends; Isaiah of The World Today Just Nuts and Ann of Ann's Mega Dub. Betty's kids did the illustration. You are reading a rush transcript.


Jim (Con't): First off, Bernie Sanders.  The Senator lost more primaries last week.  Reader Ellen says she can always tell when that happens because community sites tend to "struggle to post."

Trina: Really?

Jim: You disagree?

Trina: I would argue it was true before April.  By the end of April, not so much.  The corporate media declared Hillary Clinton the nominee some time ago.  At this point, it's rather obvious she's the nominee.  It's sad but I don't know that we're as vested in the loss as we were.

Dona: And before someone e-mails, the competition isn't over.  Those of us in California still have not voted.

Jess: We vote June 7th.  Polls open at 7 in the morning and close at 8.  The last day to register to vote is May 23rd.  And I believe all of us participating in the roundtable who are voting in California will be voting for Bernie Sanders.  We're hoping for a really strong California turnout.

Elaine: I agree with Trina though.  There was a time when it was just so depressing.  Hillary as the nominee?  The only thing scarier is Hillary as president.  But we've done what we can.  It's not worth beating ourselves up or feeling it's the end of the world.  We're not idiots like Lena Dunham who insist, "I'm leaving the US if ___ is president."

Isaiah: For the record, Dunham said if Trump becomes president.

Elaine: Right.  But I mean, it's so childish.  No, I'm not giving up my country because someone -- anyone -- becomes president.  That's just so childish.

Jim: Some would argue it's childish not to go along with supporting Hillary if you were a Bernie supporter.

Elaine: I'm sure some would.  I wouldn't make that argument though.

Ann: Because the two are so far apart.  Bernie Sanders is not perfect.  But if you supported Bernie -- or even were just rooting for him -- it was because you believed in opposition to corporate-control of the government, because you believed in a loud "no" to endless war, because you supported so many things that Hillary just doesn't give a damn about.

Jim: Ann, you won't be voting for Hillary.

Ann: Hell no.

Cedric: But she's also a Green.

Jim: Yes, she is.  And she's your wife but the way you worded that, Cedric, makes me wonder if you might consider voting for Hillary?

Cedric: I'm a Democrat.  I could be tempted.  In the final weeks of a general election, I could debate with myself over it.  But I believe in the end that the answer will be no.  She's lied too many times.  I will never forgive her support for the Iraq War.  I will never forget how badly she handled Iraq as Secretary of State.

Stan: And all the secrecy.  As Secretary of State, she refused to update Congress on what State was doing with Iraq.  You had members of Congress -- Democratic ones --

Ava: Gary Ackerman.

Stan (Con't): Gary Ackerman!  talking about how they couldn't figure out how the budget for Iraq was going because State wouldn't answer their questions or supply them with basic information.  Her Iraq problems go far beyond her 2002 vote.

Kat: And, sorry Hillary, Iraq is still a very key issue.  We're on campuses -- Wally, Ava and C.I. and me -- and we're speaking to the students across the country.  Rage at the Iraq War has vanished among the whorish 'little' media -- THE PROGRESSIVE, THE NATION, etc -- but it's a fireball on campuses.

Wally: Yeah, it is.  Kat's exactly right.  It pops up, the topic, and it ignites a firestorm.  I'd argue that the college students right now are more appalled by the Iraq War than I was a few years ago when I was in college and Bully Boy Bush was in the White House.  The fact that it hasn't ended and the fact that it's not truly a bi-partisan war?  That really sets students off.

Kat: And Hillary co-signs that war.  Even today, she co-signs it.

Ty: I think the Democratic Party's going to very surprised about the bad will they will have created for several election cycles by selecting Hillary and not Bernie.  I think they will run off a lot of young voters.

Jim: Where to?

Ty: Some will go Green or Libertarian.  I think a lot will just either reject party labels or not vote at all.

Rebecca: I could see that.  Especially the not vote at all.  The Democratic Party looks like the biggest hypocrite and whore in the world.  All that posturing against Hillary in 2008 only to embrace her eight years later?

Jim: Some would argue that people can change.

Rebecca: And some people can change.  But all the things that were identified as faults for Hillary in 2008?  None of them improved.  Too war like in 2008?  Okay, now we've got Libya and Syria as further examples of just how war like she is.  I think selecting Hillary is going to harm the Democratic Party for many election cycles.  Ty's right.

Marcia: And, yes, Jim, people can change.  I have.  In 2008, I supported Hillary.  I started my blog to support her in that primary.  And her weak ass "mistake" on Iraq? I could let that go.  I thought, "Okay, she's allowing that but afraid if she goes further, she will be ripped apart."  She voted against the surge, she sided with MoveOn on their General Petraeus don't betray us ad.  So I thought that she was really closer to my side than she could let on.  But I can't support her in 2016 because what's followed has demonstrated that she's not on my side at all, that she's far to the right of me.  So, yeah, I've changed.  Eight years ago, I would've been thrilled to have President Hillary.  Now?  I see her as yet another crook in the White House.

Ruth: And we should touch on the crook aspect in light of the e-mail scandal.  That is an ongoing investigation.  What does it say about our country and the Democratic Party that she could even run for the nomination with that cloud over her?  And whether or not you think she did something criminal, what she did was certainly bad enough.

Stan: Right.  If it wasn't criminal, we're still left with the risks she took, the way she left national security in jeopardy by using her Blackberry and by using a private e-mail server.

Isaiah: Her complete disregard for rules and laws.  I really can't get over it, to be honest.  Over how it's not a huge issue and over what she did.  I won't vote for her.

Jim: Which Debra Messing would insist means you're supporting Donald Trump.

Isaiah: I'm not really worried about the thoughts of a hagged out actress who seems to think she's too good for sitcoms when her only real talent was in sitcoms.

Marica: Amen.

Jim: Carl e-mailed about C.I.  He noted that C.I. doesn't endorse unless it's a race she can vote in and then usually doesn't endorse even then.  But in one snapshot in April, C.I. not only "finally revealed that she supported Cynthia McKinney in 2008 but also that she was voting for Bernie."  C.I.?

C.I.: I hadn't planned to ever answer who I voted for in 2008.  I didn't answer it in real time.  But for the purposes of that snapshot, it made sense to discuss it.  As for supporting Bernie?  If you read that snapshot, at the start, that's not clear.  Those are dictated.  I know what links I'm using but other than that I have no idea what I will say.  I was as surprised as Carl when I made that declaration.  But I have a lot of friends who are supporting Bernie and have been saying how the vote could really matter, every vote in California.  And I have no problem, clearly, saying that I will be voting for Bernie in the California primary.  That said, don't think I'll be declaring or endorsing for the general election.

Jim: Mike, you've been pretty quiet.

Mike: I have.  I understand what Elaine was saying earlier and what my mom [Trina] was saying but honestly, I am a little different in that I do get majorly depressed every time Bernie loses a primary.  I do not want to blog then.  I just don't see the point a lot of time after he loses.  It's just too depressing.

Jim: So what do you do?

Mike: Blog about music.

Betty: And movies.  And TV.  And anything besides politics.  I'm with Mike, sorry.  I'm not as mature about it as some people are.  I'm with Mike having my pity party and banging my head against the wall, cursing the fact that Hillary is going to be the nominee.  I mean, I'll be voting for Bernie in June.  And maybe she'll get indicted.  I'm praying she gets indicted.  But every time she wins another primary, I just want to crawl into bed and pull the covers over my head.  Sorry.

Jim: No, need to be sorry.  I'm sure some readers will agree with Trina and Elaine and some will agree with you and Mike.  And Dona's handing me a note that says everyone's spoken so let's go ahead and wrap this roundtable up.

Creative Commons License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported License.
Poll1 { display:none; }