Tuesday, March 19, 2019


Jim: Roundtable time.  Remember our e-mail address is thethirdestatesundayreview@yahoo.com and you can also e-mail us at common_ills@yahoo.com..  Participating in our roundtable are  The Third Estate Sunday Review's Dona, Ty, Jess, Ava, and me, Jim; Rebecca of Sex and Politics and Screeds and Attitude; Betty of Thomas Friedman Is a Great Man; C.I. of The Common Ills and The Third Estate Sunday Review; Kat of Kat's Korner (of The Common Ills); Cedric of Cedric's Big Mix; Mike of Mikey Likes It!; Elaine of Like Maria Said Paz); Ruth of Ruth's Report; Trina of Trina's Kitchen; Wally of The Daily Jot; Marcia of SICKOFITRDLZ; Stan of Oh Boy It Never Ends; Isaiah of The World Today Just Nuts and Ann of Ann's Mega Dub. Betty's kids did the illustration. You are reading a rush transcript.


Jim (Cont): So, Russia hysteria, where's it headed?

Ruth: Out the door, into the trash.  There was no collusion and two years time was wasted on that nonsense, time we could have spent demanding Medicare For All, an end to the Iraq War, serious efforts to combat climate change.  All we got?  Nutty conspiracy theories and we resurrected The Cold War.  All because Hillary Clinton could not acknowledge that she ran a piss poor campaign. 

Betty: Support! 

Jim: Community wide, we rejected the hysteria but, Ruth, you covered it at length at your site. 

Ruth: I did. And remember C.I.'s year end column for the gina & krista round-robin back at the end of 2016?  She was noting the rumbles and the obsession that was already starting and she said, "Do we have to be paranoid to wonder if this isn't the Obama administration pulling strings behind the scenes?"  I thought of that every time I wrote about this nonsense and it seems more and more likely that it did go straight up to former President Barack Obama and that he knew -- and if he did not know, he should have.

Jim: Thoughts?

Cedric: Yeah, I'd agree with Ruth on that.  This didn't just happen.  A lot of people were involved -- James Comey, Loretta Lynch, you name it.  I honestly believe a lot of higher ups need to be in prison for this -- for spying on an opposing campaign, using the resources of the federal government to try to spy and then to try to take down a presidency.  I'm someone who votes Democrat every time.  I will hold my nose and do it.  But my not liking Donald Trump does not make me any less appalled by what was done to him.  I really would use the term "treason" to describe what Obama officials have done with regards to Trump.  Sorry.

Ty: No need to apologize for your opinion.  I agree, this was an effort to bring down a presidency.  I don't just see it as a conspiracy, I see it as a criminal conspiracy.  I think they spied on him and tried to benefit from that and then, after the election, they tried to destroy him.  I think they had help from friends in the media.  I think James Clapper belongs in prison.  Really, all anyone needs to do is read Ruth's "Strzok spills the beans about the deal D.O.J. made with Hillary" and see if you aren't outraged.  And that's even before you get to all the print and time and TV minutes spent on this Russian hoax that never was.  I'm outraged.  And I'm outraged at how Democrats in Congress have behaved and pimped this crap. 

Marcia: I'll add my thoughts.  Crusty Lips Elijah Cummings thinking we need a hearing about whether or not FOX NEWS -- a private company -- killed a report on Stormy Daniels?  F**k you, Elijah --

Jim: Which you said in a post.

Marcia: Indeed, I did.  We can't get hearings on the Iraq War but he's going to waste our time on whether or not FOX NEWS killed a report on a porn star?  Who the f**k cares!  You are wasting my tax dollars on this crap.  I'm sick of it.  Old Crusty Lips is not working for We The People.  He's not screaming about these endless wars.  He's just whoring. And at 68 years old, he should be ashamed.  Focus on the real issues, the ones we need to address.  I'm sick of this b.s.  And I hate FOX NEWS and MSNBC.  I wouldn't watch either -- because they don't deal with real issues.

Jess: I'm going to remind everyone that we were supposed to shut down in 2009.  And, at that time, we really thought by then the Iraq War would be over.  We thought there would be no US troops in Iraq anymore.  We're only here because Ava and C.I. watched FRINGE, were troubled by some of it, had friends with the show ask them to hold off reviewing it because the problems were being addressed and so Ava and C.I. wrote a piece where they noted they'd review FRINGE in the new year and that's why we're around.  But we really thought, and we weren't crazy, that the war would be over by 2009.

Dona: But let's talk about why we thought that for a minute.  We thought that because Nancy Pelosi, as House Minority Leader in 2006, promised us the war would end.  Give us one house of Congress, she swore in 2006, ahead of the mid-terms, and we'll have the power to end the war and to launch investigations into the start of it and blah blah blah.  The American people didn't give her one house, they gave her two!  Both houses of Congress.  And she became Speaker of the House and she did not keep her word.

Elaine: Because it was too much -- it helped too much to have the war.  The war put Democrats back in power in Congress.  They realized it would turn out votes and that they could run a candidate in 2008 who could win if the war was still taking place.  So they didn't want to end in it in 2007 or 2008, not with a presidential election coming up.

Dona: Exactly right. 

Stan: And along comes Barack breaking all of his promises --

Rebecca: That Samantha Power said weren't really promises in March of 2008.

Stan: Right and that BBC interview is why she quit the campaign.  And Barack had promised all troops out within his first ten months.  Didn't happen.

Trina: You know what else didn't happen?  All those liars who were going to hold his feet to the fire?  They never did.  Fake asses like Laura Flanders and Norman Solomon and so many others.  "Oh, when he's president, will hold his feet to the fire.  We just have to be silent right now."  Liars.  Fake asses and liars.  And they have never apologized for their actions.  They won't even get honest about it.  If a David Lindorff, for example, could just say, "Boy, was I a bonehead," I'd have a little respect.  But this pretense that they didn't whore?  I have no respect.

Marcia: For me -- and I think I jumped over someone -- but for me, the worst was fat ass Pam Spalding or whatever her name was.  Little Ms. Racialicious or whatever.  Saying that Barack couldn't be primary-ed in 2012 because it wouldn't be 'fair.'  He shouldn't be primary-ed because he was Black.  Kiss my Black ass, he's bi-racial, not Black.  Second, that sort of crap right there makes me really think twice about voting for any first again -- first woman, first Latino/a, first gay, first whatever.  I don't ever want to hear that b.s. and see it treated seriously.  That was outrageous.  And let me note that not only did I jump over someone to say this, I'm yelling it as I'm speaking -- that's how outraged I still am.

Jim: So Joe Biden has entered the race.  Any reactions?

Mike: In 2016, it might have meant something.  Today?  No.  His day has passed.  Goodbye Joe. 

Jim: Anyone think they'd support his run?  Silence.  Okay, there are six women running for the Democratic Party's presidential nomination currently.  They are US House Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, Marianne Williamson, Senators Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, Kirsten Gillibrand and Amy Klobuchar. First up, is it Kam-a-la?

Ava: Yes.  Kahm-ah-lah would be prettier but it's Ka-ma-la.  It's harsh on the ear but that's Harris.

Jim: Okay.  Anyone supporting her or Amy?  Silence.  Didn't think so.  What about Elizabeth?

Trina: I could support Elizabeth Warren if she continues to raise important issues.  Warren is from my state and I'm not a fan.  But I'm not going to vote on personality.  Warren's running a smart campaign so far and I'm impressed.  Is she my first choice?  No.

Jim: Who is your first choice?

Trina: I would rank Tulsi and Marianne ahead of Elizabeth Warren.  Marianne has spoken seriously about food safety.  That is a huge issue to our country and we are not seeing politicians take it seriously, in my opinion.  Tulsi's opposition to endless wars is principled and consistent.  I am very impressed with her as well.  Of the male candidates, I could vote for Bernie Sanders.

Mike: I'd rank Tulsi first.  I'm interested in Marianne Williamson's campaign.  Elizabeth Warren is running a better job for president than I thought she did as a senator.  I'm not impressed with the bulk of the field, to be honest.  I'd vote for Bernie.  Otherwise, not interested.

Jess: I'd just like to point out that the Republican nominee -- barring any surprise announcement -- will be Donald Trump.  That's why we're not discussing it.  As for the Green Party, we're waiting on declarations of candidacy.  We are not attempting to pretend that there is only one show in town.

Wally: Good point.  And there's a candidate for the Libertarian Party's presidential nomination that C.I. has noted, Adam Kokesh.

Jim: C.I.?

C.I.: Adam Kokesh served in the Iraq War.  He came back from serving and spoke out against this never-ending war.  He has stood up for free speech even when it has meant getting arrested.  He is an activist, a strong supporter of the First Amendment as well as the Second Amendment. He has character and strength and he's highly attractive.  He notes at his campaign website, "To read the book that I started writing in jail for civil disobedience in Washington, DC, please click here. It explains how ethics can be applied consistently to politics to help humanity achieve a more peaceful, productive, and harmonious society."  He's been a talk show host for some time now.    From his website:

Adam first began his career in media with the birth of ADAM VS THE MAN as a radio show in Albuquerque on KIVA in 2010. After six months it was picked up as a TV show for RT America. After four months on the air, he was fired for criticizing Putin and went independent online to focus on podcasting and YouTube, where he has over 60 million views. He is well known for using Nonviolent Communication and Socratic Dialogue techniques in his 'man on the street' videos. Recently he has shifted focus to blockchain-based social media and is very active as a promoter of Steemit where he releases exclusive content."  

C.I. (Con't): I'd advise everyone to check out his campaign.  He may speak to your issues.  Whether he does or not, he's someone with tremendous character.  And I believe Ann has something to add on third party candidates.

Ann: I do?  Oh, yeah, I do!  One candidate has declared their intent to run for the Green Party's presidential nomination: Dario Hunter.

Jess: I did not know that. 

Ann: Yes.  This is CRAPAPEDIA:

Dario David Hunter (born 1983), also known as Yisroel Hunter,[2] is an American-Israeli lawyer, rabbi, educator[3] and politician[4] who is considered the first Muslim-born person to be ordained as a rabbi.[5][6][7]
Hunter is openly gay and was raised by his Iranian Muslim father and African American mother in New Jersey.[7]

Hunter was a Democratic Party candidate for Youngstown City Council in the 2015 primary election.[8] In the 2015 general election, he won a write-in campaign for a seat on the Youngstown Board of Education.[9] In May 2018, he joined the Green Party, becoming the only Green elected officeholder in Ohio. [10]
Hunter has been noted in the media for his outspoken stances on a number of school board issues, including what he sees as the Youngstown Board of Education's responsibility for low scores on state report cards,[11][12] ethics violations,[13] nepotism,[13] creationism in the curriculum[14][15] and the general dysfunction of the Board.

2020 presidential campaign[edit]

On January 21, 2019, Hunter announced he was forming an exploratory committee with the intention of seeking the Green Party nomination for President in 2020. [16][17] He formally launched his presidential candidacy on February 18, 2019.[18]

Jess: And you can visit his Facebook page for more about him.

Jim:  Ann and Jess are Green Party members, FYI.

C.I.: Actually, there are two more declared candidates for the Green Party's presidential nomination.  Sedinam Kinamo Christin Moyowasifza-Curry declared last year. And Ian Schlakman is also a candidate.

Jim: Would, Ann or Jess, you support Jill Stein if she went for the nomination again?

C.I.: That shouldn't be an issue.  She has announced she won't be seeking it.  Howie Hawkins might seek it and Ajamu Baraka might seek the nomination.  I believe there's also speculation that Jesse Ventura might seek it.

Jim: Okay.  Of those candidates would either of you lean towards anyone.

Ann: I would be very interested in Ajamu Baraka.  He was Jill Stein's running mate in 2016.  His work has been on peace activism since and I would be very interested in his campaign should he run.

Jesse: I would agree with that.  I also think Howie Hawkins has some organization skills that would make me seriously consider him.  If Kat Swift declares, I'd also be very interested in her.

Dona: I'm a Democrat but I'd like to make the point that rank choice voting would allow all candidates to have a better shot.  Those who use terms like 'spoilers' better be supporting rank choice voting are they're hypocrites.  We don't believe in 'spoilers' here.  We don't believe anyone owns your vote.  If a candidate wins your support, that's great.  But no one owns your vote except for you.

Jim: Beto O'Roarke is in the race.  In fact, after declaring Thursday, he went on to raise $6.1 million in donations in his first 24 hours as a candidate.  Any thoughts?

Kat: I'm giving him an honest look.  I know some are not and that's fine.  But I am willing to consider him.

Jim: Based on?

Kat: As I said at my site, C.I. pointed out Beto's strong focus in Congressional hearings.  I'd forgotten that.  We attended those and I was and remain impressed with Beto on that.  He had a way of cutting through the nonsense.  I need him to figure out what his plan is for Iraq and the other endless wars.  If his plan is something I can support, I could support him.

Jim: Some do not support him.  Kat's right?  Anyone want to talk about that.

Betty: I will.  I don't live in Texas.  So why was he shoved down my throat in 2018?  And the glorification of him was far out of step with the reality of him.  He was a media darling.  I'm not generally fond of those.  I like workhorses, not show horses. And I really grew weary of the efforts to promote him nationally.  Like Wendy Davis, he left me underwhelmed although, in fairness, he did seem to have more on the ball than Wendy ever did.  If he came out with a strong position regarding ending these endless wars, I'd consider him.

Jim: Has anyone encountered any real enthusiasm for Beto?

Kat: Today.  We stopped by to see one of C.I.'s friends, a cardiologist.  He was saying that, at his office, if he could, he'd hang a poster of Beto in the front office.  He was very high on Beto.

Ava: And to give some background, he's in his mid-30s, the Beto supporter, Latino and a cardiologist.  He's a Democrat who will vote for the nominee regardless of whom it is but he really, really wants Beto to get the nomination.

Jim: Does Beto have more male support than female?

Ava: I wouldn't know.

Jim: Kat?

Kat: Same.

Jim: Ty, you have an e-mail, right?

Ty: Reader Jodi e-mailed about the HBO LEAVING NEVERLAND and wants to know why people lied for Michael Jackson.

Jim: Ava's laughing.  Why?

Ava: Because this is a topic C.I. bit her tongue on for several years now and I believe she's about to let it rip.

Jim: C.I.?

C.I.: I do try to be nice.  We had a non-stop tribute to a cheap whore and I just kept my mouth closed.  Carrie Fisher was so pretty -- no, she wasn't.  She was a breakthrough super hero -- no, she wasn't.  She was a great actress -- no, she wasn't.  She was someone worth listening to -- no, she wasn't. 

Jim: What's Carrie Fisher got to do with this?

C.I.: The question was why people lied for Michael and Carrie used her second to last book to lie for Michael, to proclaim his innocence, why she went to that dentist and blah, blah, blah.  Reality, Carrie was a drug addict.  Reality, she had shock therapy.  Reality, she could create on drugs.  She could not create after shock therapy.  Her last two books demonstrated that and were embarrassments.  She should have held her tongue on several things -- including Harrison Ford.  So desperate for money, she'd do anything.  That's sadly how she went out.  And everyone tried to act like she was a feminist.  A feminist doesn't attack others to cover for a pedophile.  Carrie Fisher was many things, a feminist is not something she was.  In fairness to her, prior to shock therapy, she was a talented writer.  After?  She suddenly thought it was 'clever' to pick on an old man by noting he farted.  Not clever, not funny.  Petty and bitchy.  Why did he get away with it?  Michael had friends like Carrie Fisher who would lie for him and attack the families of the victims.  That's her heritage and I'm damn sorry.  I warned her when that first awful book came out, SHOCKAHOLIC, that she needed to get it together because that book was beneath her and because Michael Jackson was a predator.  She could have taken care of it.  She chose not to.  It's her real legacy.  I knew Carrie and liked her.  I defended her many times.  But she brought her problems on herself in the end and she is the reason that Michael Jackson walked -- people like her. 

Marcia: The Jackson family defends him.

C.I.: I know many of them.  Janet defending him?  It's her brother and I don't fault her.  Jermaine? I fault him.  He tried to write a book while Michael was alive, even put it together in writing, his book proposal, where he was going to call Michael out for sleeping with young boys -- sleeping with them, not sex.  Jermaine is less than sincere when he pretends shock.  Latoya called it out in real time now she pretends otherwise.  There's a lot of money to be made off of him.  Janet doesn't need the money so greed doesn't factor in with her.  The others?  Everyone suspected while Michael was alive.  Everyone in the family.  For them to pretend otherwise in the hopes of grabbing more money is disgusting and beneath them.

Ava: And to be clear, there have been many times when the topic of Carrie has come up and C.I.'s bit her tongue or removed it from our writing for Carrie's brother Todd's benefit.  We even avoided LEAVING NEVERLAND for that reason.

Ty: Which brings up another issue in an e-mail.  Brandon wanted to thank you guys for tackling "TV: Truth and lies," "TV: The lies of Ellen DeGeneres are out in full fo...,"  "TV: PBS' long con," "TV: Telling stories" and "Maybe Cher's right and some women should be called...." And he wrote that it must get weary holding people accountable.

Ava: It does get old.  We do try to vary.  This week isn't a hard hitting piece, for example. 

Rebecca: Let me jump in.  Ava and C.I. have a body of work.  An honest to God body of work that you can point to with pride.  They have all these amazing pieces.  If I just had "Maybe Cher's right and some women should be called...," I'd be satisfied.  Or to have written "TV: The Soggy Katrina retrospectives," "MEDIA: Male norms, Russia hate and lots of excuses...," "TV: Aftermath leaves an aftertaste," "TV: Why bad TV happens to good viewers," "TV: Global Boring," "TV: 60 MINUTES of gossip," "TV: Poor sports and strip teases," "TV: Exploding a stereotype," "TV: What's happy about early endings?," "TV: The Death of the TV Movie," "The Circle Jerk Swallows (Ava and C.I.)," "TV: The War Crimes Documentary," "Media: Epic Meltdown," "TV Review: Will & Grace -- goodbye, good riddance," and "TV: Katie Was a Cheerleader" -- those are all amazing pieces of writing.  I really think they have built up a body of work to be proud of.  I beat Dona to it.

Dona: You did.  But, come on, I just say they have a body of work.  You provided some examples.

Rebecca: I did a little homework, I was prepared.  In terms of politics, I am firmly behind Tulsi Gabbard but I am also impressed with Marianne Williamson.

Jim: Wally and Stan, how about you two?  Dona slid me a note saying we needed more from you and Isaiah but I have a question for Isaiah.

Stan: Tulsi.  Absolutely.  She's far and ahead of everyone else in my book.  I'd vote for Bernie if he got the nomination but my preference is Tulsi.

Jim: Anyone you wouldn't vote for?

Stan: I don't believe we need Joe Biden at all.  I think Mike said earlier that his time has come and gone.  I certainly support that. 

Jim: Wally?

Wally: Tulsi's my clear preference.  But I will look into Beto's campaign, Elizabeth Warren's, the Castro brother [Julian Castro] and Senator Kirsten Gillibrand. 

Jim: Okay, Isaiah, you just did three comics in a row dealing with the Democratic Party primary -- Joe Biden, Beto, Tulsi Gabbard --  "Beto's Running," "Real Issues" and  "America's Mayor."  Do you have any plans for the primaries?

Isaiah: No.  I doubt I will live cartoon any of the early debates.  There are so many running and I think that's great.  It's always better to have more choices.  I think there are some strong candidates.  My basic sense of fairness puts Tulsi ahead of the pack because I don't like how the media picks on her and treats her unfairly. Other than that, I am open to everyone -- even Kamala Harris -- except for Joe Biden. He's been out of the White House for two years and what's he done?  Handed Bully Boy Bush an award?  That alone -- I was with Elaine on this -- that alone was enough to disqualify him but who thinks, in 2017, about running for president after being Vice President and then spends two years doing nothing to pad the resume?  He's wasted two years.  I don't have time for him.  I'm not rooting for Kamala, for example, but I don't doubt that she really wants it.  Especially after Hillary Clinton, I don't want another candidate who thinks they are owed it. 

Jim: Good point.  And now we're going to wrap up.  This has been a rush transcript.

Creative Commons License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported License.
Poll1 { display:none; }