Monday, March 06, 2017


Jim: Roundtable time, but we're confining it to just the core of THIRD.  Remember our e-mail address is  Participating in our roundtable are  The Third Estate Sunday Review's Dona, Ty, Jess, Ava, and me, Jim;  plusC.I. of The Common Ills and The Third Estate Sunday Review,  You are reading a rush transcript.  Jane Fonda was in the news last week.  An e-mail from Carol argues that her noting she was raped and abused as a child is about "forty years too late."

C.I.: This has to do with the interview she did with Brie Larson.  In terms of Carol's feelings, she can feel whatever she wants.  Possibly, she's a victim of abuse or attacks, I don't know.  But Jane doesn't owe anyone anything in terms of disclosures.  That's true of any survivor of rape or abuse.  Some people will never be comfortable discussing it publicly.  Some will need time to discuss it publicly.  Whatever they decide, that's their truth and it's not an obligation.  In an ideal world, every survivor would feel comfortable discussing what happened publicly.  That's not where we are yet.  Jane's honesty last week helps get us a little closer to that state.

Jim: So she doesn't owe it to come forward?

C.I.: She owes it to herself and her loved ones to get as healthy as she can.  That's all she owes.  And one of the great truth tellers, Tina Turner, used to talk about how when she told her truth some would listen and some would hear -- which is another reality.  Sometimes people aren't ready for the truth.

Jim: And sometimes people don't hear.  Catherine Shoard, THE GUARDIAN, has a piece on the interview that states of Fonda "the actor also said she has been fired from films because she refused to sleep with her boss."

C.I.: That's not supported by the interview.  I believe Jane's referring to when she was harassed on the job and that was in France before she started acting.  It wasn't an acting job.  Jane started out under contract to family friend Josh Logan.  She bought her way out of that contract.  As the daughter of the in demand Henry Fonda and then as the wife of Roger Vadim, she had more security than most women.  Her worst experiences on film sets tended to be with the likes of Joseph Losey, where they are at odds over interpretation of the source material.

Jim: Any other thoughts on the interview?

Ty: The power of no.  C.I.'s preached that.  Brie's talking about it in the piece.

Ava: Tom Hayden had a ranting e-mail to C.I. about that and he also trashed it publicly.  My thoughts then, before he died, were, "Of course he would trash it."  He's more of a predator and always was.  Brie's talking about owning power -- the same as C.I. -- when you're in a position that you may not have traditional power.  It's an important lesson.  And it's one a predator won't like.  A predator never likes to hear "no."

Dona: Also on the article, actress Brie Larson is talking about speaking out and Jane's saying that when people complain it's because you have a power.  I don't agree with that.

Jess: What do you think?

Dona: Well I believe that there are times when it's about you using your power but there's also times where you're just a broken record and no one wants to hear it anymore.  There's an episode of AMERICAN DAD where Roger's like "let it go" to Hayley when she's going on about Bully Boy Bush.

Ty: I think some confuse talking politics and issues with talking partisanship.  I haven't followed Brie Larson so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.  But no one wants to hear partisanship.  I agree with you, Donna, when people are being blah blah blah about a Mitt Romney or a Hillary Clinton or whomever, it's just a yawn.  They're boring as hell.

Jess:  I'd agree.  Take an idiot like Alyssa Milano, she promotes The White Helmets because she's too stupid to realize they're a propaganda front.  She promotes that, her every day is about anti-Trump Tweets.  I suppose it plays to the politically stupid but what she fails to grasp is that the Democrats (a) are not an answer as the last decades have demonstrated and that (b) many of us live far beyond the two party duopoly.

Jim: Especially in the current environment where Democrats do nothing but harp on Russia.  Is that their answer to the economy?  Is that what's going to win over voters?  It's paranoia and it sounds nutty.

Ty: Let's talk about issues.  Jessica Lange, Sissy Spacek talking about the foreclosures on American farms, that's an issue.  Jane Fonda talking about rape and abuse?  That's an issue.  Susan Sarandon speaking out against the Iraq War?  That's an issue.

Jess: And issues matter.  Let's use your last example, Susan Sarandon.  She got attacked viciously for speaking out against the Iraq War.  And that could go to the point about getting attacked because you have power.  That said, I think even some of the people who attacked her back then respect her now.  She spoke about something that mattered.  It was a real issue.  She showed integrity.

Dona: Whining about Hillary Clinton losing does not show integrity.  She's a War Hawk and a liar.  The party needed a better candidate and should have gone with Bernie over her.  Hillary lost because she's a loser with endless baggage.  People seemed to think that we had no choice and we would just vote for her regardless.


[Isaiah's THE WORLD TODAY JUST NUTS   "Hillary Talks To Bernie."]

C.I.: On that, I don't think they get your generation at all.

Ava: I would agree with that.  We're the generation who grew up with gay as not shocking.  We're the generation that grew up with war is wrong.  And we grew up with people like Susan Sarandon drawin lines -- rightly, that's not an insult to her.  So this idea that we'll just do as we're told and vote for who we're told to?  I'm sorry, we're not scared little bunnies who grew up in the shadow of McCarthy and nuclear war.  We're not brainwashed.  That's what they don't get about their Russia bulls**t.  It works well for the elderly like Nancy Pelosi.  But they can't grasp that our entire lives has not been about hating 'the other.'

C.I.: And the campaign for Hillary, let's be honest, wasn't about promises to voters, it was about creating 'the other.'  She was too self-involved to realize she needed to appeal to voters.

Jim: Exactly.  There was no campaign.  There was no effort to appeal.  It was all about crooked Hillary is owed this and Donald Trump is evil.  That was the whole slogan.

Ty: And we're the generation that can't be scared into being good little sheep.

Dona: They don't get it.  They really don't.  They think they're the only show in town even though we've had decades of people dropping out of the voting process because they don't believe in it.

Jess: And one reason is the Electoral College.  And don't whine that Hillary lost it to Donald but won the popular vote.  If the Democratic Party gave a damn about that, they should have fought to change it after the 2000 election.  They didn't want to.

Ty: Because it makes election easy for the duopoly.  If they had to compete for every vote, they wouldn't know how to campaign.  Instead, the electoral college makes a few states important and that's how they campaign.

Dona: And they move to the right, forever to the right.  The left isn't represented by the Democratic Party.  The corporations are represented by both parties. So when some little hack like Alyssa Milano wants to pimp the Democratic Party, people roll their eyes.  You know Alyssa still thinks she's seen as young?  She's a 44-year-old hack who got lucky with CHARMED where (a) she got to fire Shannen and (b) Holly Marie Combs did all the heavy acting.  Then she flopped for years.  Then she got lucky with MISTRESSES but producer Rina Mimoun wouldn't indulge Alyssa's tantrums and when Alyssa gave ABC the ultimatum of her or me, ABC went with Rina at which point, in an attempt at face saving, Alyssa said she was quitting.  She's a hacktress.  She didn't even have the talent to pull off the role of Jennifer Mancini on MELROSE PLACE.  She's so limited in her acting.  And you don't think about that until she's screeching about Trump while insisting it's for her children's future.  Which only reminds you that she never spoke out against the Iraq War.

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