Truest statement of the week

 Why did ABC News throw in the towel? It‘s hard to know for sure, but gets easier if you are aware that the news organizations is owned by Disney, a huge corporation with a lot of turf to protect. As the Times reported, the Disney executive who oversees ABC News had dinner with Trump’s top aide, Susan Wiles, just days before the settlement, as “part of a visit by several ABC News executives to Florida to meet with Mr. Trump’s transition team.”

Was this settlement, which includes ABC’s public expressions of regret, a simple case of kissing the ring? It sure looks that way. Trump has sworn to get revenge on his enemies and he values, above all, loyalty and kowtowing.

But loyalty and kowtowing isn’t the job of the press, which is supposed to represent the public in holding powerful people and institutions accountable. 

-- Margaret Sullivan, "ABC News caved when it settled with Trump" (SUBSTACK).  

A note to our readers

Hey --

Wednesday.

Let's thank all who participated this edition which includes Dallas and the following:

The Third Estate Sunday Review's Jim, Dona, Ty, Jess and Ava,
Rebecca of Sex and Politics and Screeds and Attitude,
Betty of Thomas Friedman Is a Great Man,
C.I. of The Common Ills and The Third Estate Sunday Review,
Kat of Kat's Korner (of The Common Ills),
Mike of Mikey Likes It!,
Elaine of Like Maria Said Paz),
Cedric of Cedric's Big Mix,
Ruth of Ruth's Report,
Wally of The Daily Jot,
Trina of Trina's Kitchen, 

Marcia of SICKOFITRDLZ,
Stan of Oh Boy It Never Ends,
Isaiah of The World Today Just Nuts,
and Ann of Ann's Mega Dub.

 

And what did we come up with? 

• Truest statement of the week
• Editorial: We see you and we won't forget
• Media Lessons (Ava and C.I.)
• Roundtable
• Ty's Corner
• Books (Stan, Kat, Ava and C.I.)
• You might have been home schooled if . . .
• 2024 passings
• BLUESKY of the Week
• Book List
• This edition's playlist

Peace.

 

-- Jim, Dona, Ty, Jess, Ava and C.I.

 

Editorial: We see you and we won't forget

 Kamala Harris offered Americans leadership.  Elect her, she'd go into the White House with a to-do list to work for the American people.  She also told them what the alternative would be: Trump going back into the White House with an enemies list.

And the American people, by a tiny sliver, chose to the enemies list.

Now that's due to a number of things and the primary problem on the left, of course, was the fact that 'left' media used their time -- and the money we donate to them -- to attack Kamala.  THE NATION, DEMOCRACY NOW!, THE PROGRESSIVE, COMMON DREAMS and many more posted daily attacks on Kamala.

We needed every Democrat to turn out in order to defeat the very real threat that is Trump.  We needed to rally.  We needed to encourage voter turnout.

But racism and sexism intersected and left way too many of our 'trusted' outlets attacking Kamala.

Never forget that DEMOCRACY NOW! and THE NATION actively worked to elect Trump by attacking Kamala daily.

They hope that you will forget.  They need for you to forget.  If you hold them accountable, they go under.  

This reality should have led them to some analysis of their own and to confess to their journalistic malpractice.  Instead, as Ty notes this edition, THE NATION has published another garbage article keeping the focus off their own actions.

They don't want to get honest?  You shouldn't support them.

Left voters consuming 'progressive media' were fed a daily dose of Kamala The Horrible and then left voters ended up turning out in lower numbers than they did in 2020.  That's a direct link.  

They elected Donald Trump and they must be held accountable.

Doyle McManus (LOS ANGELES TIMES) notes:

Kash Patel, President-elect Donald Trump’s nominee as the next director of the FBI, has big plans.

He has called for the prosecution of a long list of people he accuses of conspiring to undermine Trump, including President Biden, Vice President Kamala Harris, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and outgoing FBI Director Christopher A. Wray.

That's on IN THESE TIMES, THE PROGRESSIVE, COMMON DREAMS, DEMOCRACY NOW! and THE NATION.  For decades now, 'progressive media,' 'beggar media,' 'panhandle media,' whatever you want to call it has critiqued corporate media.  After they actively worked to defeat Kamala and re-elect Donald Trump, they think they owe nothing.  They're due for an accounting and then some.

When Amy Goodman laments, in future months, the erosion of rights and liberties, remember that in the three months prior to the election, she attacked Kamala every single day on her program.  As the country is attacked from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue on a daily basis over the next four years, never forget how Goodman and the rest worked overtime to ensure that Kamala would not become president. 

Media Lessons (Ava and C.I.)

Life lessons?  Not sure we're qualified to offer those.  We're really not t We mige Dottie Ingels type.  But media lessons?  We might have a few to share.

 

Ty passed on an e-mail from reader Carl Stanton.   Carl agrees with our call that outlets like DEMOCRACY NOW!, THE NATION, THE PROGRESSIVE, et al depressed turn out in the 2024 presidential election with their non-stop attacks on Kamala Harris.  He notes that there were many more left outlets than what we've listed here since August who took part in those attacks.  

Carl is absolutely correct.  

And he's absolutely correct to note ___ ___ ____ as one of the worst offenders.

Media lesson number 1: We're not naming them.

They attacked -- from the 'left' -- Kamala several times each day in one video after another. They repeated and popularized GOP attacks -- including the lie that she was drunk.  They did this while pretending to be part of the left -- a crazy kind of left you understand -- one that worships liar Glenn Greenwald and reposts interviews done by I-was-attacked-by-a-demon Tucker Carlson.

Some might argue that they're of the Jimmy Dore 'left' but they aren't and that's why we aren't noting them.  

Confused?

The drunk lie?  It's their biggest video in months.  It got 14,000 streams.  Everything else?  You're lucky to see one of their videos crack 1,000 views.  There are some that don't even crack 500.

That's why they're not part of the Jimmy Dore 'left,' Jimmy's grift continues to see him getting 75,000 or more views a video.  ____ ____ _____ desperately needs attention to get viewers.  They used to get 80,000 easy on a video.  And, again, most of their videos now don't even get a thousand.  And only one video since August has gotten more than a thousand streams -- 14,000 when they went on YOUTUBE to lie that Kamala was drunk.

Media Lesson 1: When a bad show's going down the toilet, don't rescue it by bringing attention to it.

Media Lesson 2: How to tell when you're not appreciated.

We consume a lot of media.  We like to believe that the people delivering the information care about the information and care about the audience; however, that is not always the case.

As Maya Angelou noted long ago, when they show you who they are, believe them.

MORNING JOE's Mika and Joe have shown you.  So have Cenk and Ana of THE YOUNG TURKS.  

We can't imagine why anyone would ever watch those shows again.

"B-b-b-but Ava and C.I., Mika and Joe might be worried about their lives."

They might be.

But (a) who cares and (b) we're not talking about that.

We're talking about how Mika and Joe and Cenk and Ana have both used their broadcast time to yell at their audience.  Repeatedly.

Now you might like impassioned commentary about political figures -- you might not -- but that's not what we're talking about.  We're talking about two sets of hosts who now see their program as a way to dress down their audience.  

If they're yelling at you and raging at you, you're not being appreciated and you need to turn off.  Tolerating abuse is encouraging abuse.

3) Media Lesson 3.  

Most of us are familiar with the phrase "If you can't do, teach."  It's a bromide. (Trite and unoriginal.)  And also untrue.  That was driven home last week.

As briefly as possible, PROPUBLICA had a story that they were going to run.  We ignored it here when others were running with it -- due to a Tweet the subject of the upcoming report published.  I don't want to spread false information.  So a military institution was asked about a claim by a person -- we'll dub X -- and they said the claim was false.  They said that on the record when and PRO PUBLICA prepared a report.  The report was not published because it turned out X had told the truth. 

This is where the idiot and liar jumped in, "Dr" (she's not) Naomi Wolf.  She tweeted:

No, that’s not how journalism is supposed to work. It’s 1/ hear something. 2/ Check something. 3/ Change course if the rumor does not check out. 4/ Look into and report on the people at West Point who issued a newsworthy and defamatory claim.

Quote

Jesse Eisinger

@eisingerj

·

Dec 11

Replying to @eisingerj

11/ So: No, we are not publishing a story.

This is how journalism is supposed to work. Hear something. Check something. Repeat steps 1 and 2 as many times as needed.

The end.

Show more

For the record, PROPUBLICA did journalism -- Tom Jones (POYNTER) covers that here -- and, in fact, did steps that Dummy Wolf says they didn't do.

Now normally, when two people are at odds, you may not know who's telling the truth and who isn't.

But this is Naomi Wolf.  

It's hilarious that she wants to tell others how to do journalism -- as hilarious as her claiming "Dr."  Maybe you missed it, but we covered it at length here.  Naomi Wolf embarrassed herself.  She did a dissertation for her doctorate.  Then she got it published as a book.  And then it fell apart.  We did not immediately jump on her even though we don't like her.  We thought there might be some reason or factor that everyone was missing.  We were trying to be fair.  To stay with that, we'll go with WIKIPEDIA's summary of what took place: 

Wolf's book Outrages: Sex, Censorship, and the Criminalization of Love was based on the 2015 doctoral thesis she completed under the supervision of literary scholar Stefano-Maria Evangelista, a Fellow of Trinity College, Oxford.^[22][23] It studies the repression of homosexuality in relation to attitudes toward divorce and prostitution, and also in relation to the censorship of books.^[93]

Outrages was published in the UK in May 2019 by Virago Press.^[94] On June 12, 2019, Outrages was named on the O, The Oprah Magazine's "The 32 Best Books by Women of Summer 2019" list.^[95] The next day, the U.S. publisher recalled all copies from U.S. bookstores.^[96]

In a 2019 BBC radio interview, broadcaster and author Matthew Sweet identified an error in a central tenet of the book: a misunderstanding of the legal term "death recorded", which Wolf had taken to mean that the convict had been executed but in fact means that the convict was pardoned or the sentence was commuted.^[97][98][99] He cited a website for the Old Bailey Criminal Court, which Wolf had referred to in the interview as one of her sources.^[100] Reviewers have described other errors of scholarship in the work.^[101][102]

At the Hay Festival in Wales in May 2019, a few days after her exchange with Sweet, Wolf defended her book and said she had already corrected the error.^[103] At an event in Manhattan in June, she said she was not embarrassed and felt grateful to Sweet for the correction.^[104][105] On October 18, 2019, it became known that Houghton Mifflin Harcourt's release of the book in the U.S. was being canceled, with copies already printed and distributed being pulled and pulped.^[106] Wolf expressed hope that the book would still be published in the U.S.^[107][108]

In November 2020, Virago published a UK paperback edition of the book that removed the incorrect references to the execution of men for sodomy included in the hardback edition. Interviewed about the new edition, Sweet said that the book continues to misread historical sources: "Dr Wolf has misrepresented the experiences of victims of child abuse and violent sexual assault. This is the most profound offence against her discipline, as well as the memories of real people on the historical record". Cultural historian Fern Riddell called the book a "calumny against gay people" in the 19th century and said that Wolf "presents child rapists and those taking part in acts of bestiality as being gay men in consensual relationships and that is completely wrong". The Daily Telegraph reported that there had been calls for Wolf's 2015 DPhil to be reexamined, and for Virago to withdraw the book.^[109] In a statement to The Guardian, Wolf said the book had been reviewed "by leading scholars in the field" and "it is clear that I have accurately represented the position". Oxford University stated that a "statement of clarification" to Wolf's thesis had been received and approved, and would be "available for consultation in the Bodleian Library in due course".^[110]

In March 2021, Times Higher Education reported that Wolf's original thesis remained unavailable six years after it was examined. Oxford doctoral graduates can request an embargo of up to three years, with the potential for renewal.^[111] The thesis finally became available in April 2021, with nine pages of corrections attached dealing with the misreading of historic criminal records.^[112][23] Wolf had submitted the thesis to the archive in December 2020, more than five years after her DPhil was awarded, and had requested a one-year extension to the embargo period so that she could seek legal advice.^[113] The extension request was declined.^[24]

In university teaching, Outrages has been used as an example of the danger of misreading historical sources.^[114]

Get it?  nine pages of corrections to her thesis.  Nine pages.  Oxford's excuse is that they just wanted to move beyond it.  That's not sufficient.  Her shoddy scholarship means her doctorate should be rescinded.  The book is no more.  The publisher did the right thing by pulping it.  Naomi's entire premise was wrong.  But addressing that, for Oxford, would mean admitting to just how unrigorous the doctoral process is for famous individuals.  And that would bring to light other problematic people who received doctorates from Oxford.  They think they can skate on this but every year they fail to address it, their reputation sinks a little more.

Naomi Wolf can't do journalism.  That does not mean she can teach it.  Her list of nutty is incredible long.  She was threatened with the nut house according to the father of her children -- not the mercenary she married as she restyled herself into the fat frump of MAGA. 

The point here is: Be careful of who you listen to.  Some people are not qualified to even be bobble head pundits.

Media Lesson 4: Be careful who the media listens to

It's a subtle difference. It applies to the above.  We'll say no more on this.

Media Lesson 5: It is not better to just try to get along.

Financial health?  There is no media without that.  And some argue the concern is why ABC NEWS disgraced themselves over the weekend by agreeing to pay Satan Trump $15 million in damages for George  

Stephanopoulos.  A woman says Satan raped her.  He said she wasn't his type.  She sued him.  A jury found him liable 

Again, to be fair, WIKIPEDIA:

On May 9, 2023, a jury of six men and three women found Trump liable for sexual abuse, battery and defamation. On the issue of rape, the jury found it was not proven that Trump had raped her as specified in New York law, which specifies rape as the nonconsensual and forcible penetration with one's penis. The jury found Trump liable for sexual abuse in that he nonconsensually digitally penetrated her.^[6][61] Carroll was awarded $5 million in damages. CBS News stated, "They found Trump liable for sexual abuse, not sexual assault."^[5] Following the verdict, during a Town Hall on CNN, Trump repeated that Carroll's narrative was a "fake", "made up story", invented by a "whack job".^[77] He filed an appeal with the Second Circuit Court of Appeals on May 11, 2023.^[78]

On May 23, 2023, seeking $10 million in additional damages, Carroll asked the court to expand the 2019 defamation lawsuit to include Trump's post-verdict remarks on CNN and Truth Social.^[79] The court granted the motion, and the second defamation trial was scheduled for January 15, 2024.^[80] In June 2023, Trump counter-sued Carroll for defamation, after she told CNN "yes he did" rape her, in response to a question about the jury not finding him liable for that offense. Judge Kaplan dismissed the lawsuit in August, ruling that Carroll's rape claim against Trump was substantially true.^[81] In September 2023, Judge Kaplan issued a summary judgment in Carroll's favor, stating that the facts established by the trial jury were indisputable.^[82] On January 16, 2024, after Joe Tacopina dropped his representation of Trump just as the case was about to resume, ex-Trump attorney Tim Parlatore said that he thought Tacopina had, in prior proceedings, "barely cross-examined Jean Carroll".^[83]

On January 26, 2024, a jury found Trump liable for $18.3 million in compensation for emotional and reputational harm, and $65 million in punitive damages, totaling $83.3 million.^[84] After Judge Kaplan denied a request by Trump's team to delay the payment to the plaintiff, Trump, on March 8, 2024, three days before the payments deadline, appealed the verdict and posted a $91.6 million bond. Carroll stated that the bond size is "stupendous", and suggested that had the appeal not been submitted, she would have "quickly" begun seizing Trump’s assets.^[10]

Judge finds that Trump did “rape” Carroll in a sense

In a July 19, 2023, memorandum opinion, Judge Lewis Kaplan, who presided over the trial, wrote that the evidence demonstrated Trump "raped" Carroll in the plain sense of the word as “many people” understand it.^[7] He clarified that despite the "far narrower definition" of rape under New York's statute, as the term is understood "in common modern parlance", and, citing definitions from the US Justice Department and the American Psychological Association, "the jury found that Mr. Trump in fact did exactly that":

“The finding that Ms. Carroll failed to prove that she was ‘raped’ within the meaning of the New York Penal Law does not mean that she failed to prove that Mr. Trump ‘raped’ her as many people commonly understand the word ‘rape,’ ” Kaplan wrote.

He added: “Indeed, as the evidence at trial recounted below makes clear, the jury found that Mr. Trump in fact did exactly that.”

Kaplan said New York’s legal definition of “rape” is “far narrower” than the word is understood in “common modern parlance.”

The former requires forcible, unconsented-to penetration with one’s penis. But he said that the conduct the jury effectively found Trump liable for — forced digital penetration — meets a more common definition of rape. He cited definitions offered by the American Psychological Association and the Justice Department, which in 2012 expanded its definition of rape to include penetration “with any body part or object.”^[6]

They shouldn't have settled.  They allowed a bully to intimidate them.  They refused to stand up.  Each time someone does that, it emboldens a bully.  Yes, the judge overseeing the trial against ABC NEWS is a Trumpette, a media hater and gruesome individual.  But the reality is she was not the final say. 

You have laid down before the monster.  In doing so, you make it harder for everyone other outlet practicing actual journalism to do their job.

Brad Reed (RAW STORY) notes:

ABC News' decision to settle a defamation lawsuit filed by President-elect Donald Trump drew harsh criticism from former New York Times public editor Margaret Sullivan Monday.

Writing on her Substack page, Sullivan ripped ABC for agreeing to pay $15 million to Trump's presidential library in exchange for the president-elect dropping his defamation lawsuit against the network.

Among other things, Sullivan predicted that ABC News' settlement with Trump will only encourage him to launch more lawsuits against news organizations who give his administration negative coverage.

Liz Skalka (HUFFINGTON POST) added, "President-elect Donald Trump said he’s planning a lawsuit against the Des Moines Register over its final election poll showing Trump running several points behind Vice President Kamala Harris in Iowa, a traditionally red state."  And now?  Now we have Satan  Trump declaring publicly that these attacks he's been launching on the press?  That they should actually be carried out by the Justice Dept which brings us to our final media lesson -- the First Amendment never seems more important than when we're at risk of losing it. 

 

Roundtable

 Jim: Roundtable time.  Remember our e-mail address is thethirdestatesundayreview@yahoo.com and you can also use common_ills@yahoo.com. Participating in our roundtable are  The Third Estate Sunday Review's Dona, Ty, Jess, Ava, and me, Jim; Rebecca of Sex and Politics and Screeds and Attitude; Betty of Thomas Friedman Is a Great Man; C.I. of The Common Ills and The Third Estate Sunday Review; Kat of Kat's Korner (of The Common Ills); Cedric of Cedric's Big Mix;  Ruth of Ruth's Report; Trina of Trina's Kitchen; Wally of The Daily Jot; Marcia of SICKOFITRDLZ; Stan of Oh Boy It Never Ends; Isaiah of The World Today Just Nuts and Ann of Ann's Mega Dub. Betty's kids did the illustration. You are reading a rush transcript.

  

Jim (Con't):Betty's kids did the illustration. You are reading a rush transcript. So a few complaints from readers.  They feel that Ava and C.I. have delivered since the election week after week but that otherwise it has been a let down.  I do get their point.

Dona: Right.  I'm just not in the mood, sorry.  The election outcome was so depressing.  I once talked politics with Lauren Bacall and she spoke of how she felt Adlai Stevenson could have been a "transformative" president and how she still felt wounded by that election outcome that sent Eisenhower to the White House.  That was over fifty years after the two elections.  And it still haunted her.  That's how I feel with regards to 2024.  It's been upsetting and it's been difficult.  So, yes, we have relied -- overly so -- on Ava and C.I. to keep people dropping by while the rest of us took time off.  

Betty: And, in fairness to that, a lot of people needed to take time off.  I'm not talking here at THIRD.  As a Black woman, the betrayal haunts me -- betrayal from the left.  And, like a lot of Black women, I am figuring out what I will now do and what I won't.  I'm pretty sure we're going to get into that in greater detail in a moment but I want to be clear that -- regardless of race -- if the outcome bothered you, I do understand the need to step back.  

Ava: And we did a so-so piece for this edition so we're not carrying the edition.

Jess: I like Ava and C.I.'s piece this edition but it's one of their step-back pieces in their eyes.  Too much focus, too much attention and they write something that they hope lowers expectations.  And readers know that, it's how Ava and C.I. have written here for nearly 20 years now.  So I think that also factors in.  Basically, since July, at least July, they've had to do one hard hitting piece after another.  

Kat: Since we're talking out come, I'll share this.  Sunday before the Tuesday election, I was tired and I knew Ava and C.I. were as well.  I thought Kamala was going to win -- that the country was going to win -- and I said that I couldn't wait for the election to be over.  And C.I. said something to the effect of -- you all know my memory -- that in a way it felt like when you were seeing someone die before your eyes and you were doing everything you could and were exhausted and thinking that maybe it would be easier after the passing but after the passing you'd be even sadder due to the outcome.

Ava: I forgot about that.  So, C.I., you thought she was going to lose on Sunday before the election?

C.I.: No, I didn't.  I thought it was possible but I was praying it wasn't going to happen.  I was tired and had more to do on Monday but I was taking in Kat's comments about being exhausted and thinking that as tired as I was -- the outcome could end up being Kamala losing and then I'd be feeling like I preferred being exhausted and the race continuing.  No, I did not know she was going to lose.  I had high hopes but I knew she might lose.

Jim: So what do we do now?  

Wally: Focus on what we can do.  Some aren't ready to work right now and some may never be ready to work again on politics.  I understand that.  But those who are, we can do simple and straight forward things.  We can, for example, leave Twitter and move to BLUESKY.  That is in our power.  It's a needed first step to correcting a wrong.  Elon Musk has power due to owning Twitter.  He misused that power.  We must leave his platform.  We can create something much better at BLUESKY.

Trina: It's a positive step and it clearly worries the fright-wing as evidenced by conservative closet case Ben Smith's attack on BLUESKY that C.I. called out in today's snapshot.  And I've long noted at my site that I did not name an outlet -- it was POLITICO -- because of Ben Smith and how disgusting he is.  He didn't just refuse to credit THE COMMON ILLS, he wrote a disgusting e-mail to a right winger about C.I. and THE COMMON ILLS and the right-winger forwarded Ben's e-mail to her.  That's when we all walked away from POLITICO -- that was his outlet at the time.  Some would note it -- C.I. didn't walk away from it -- but not name the site.  Now that C.I.'s noted what went down and since Ben's no longer with POLITICO, I'm not opposed to noting them.  But you need to understand that people like Ben Smith are not the neutrals that they pose as and that they write with a political slant -- he's a closet conservative who has troubles with women.  

Jim: Ann, I'm turning to you for a number of reasons.  First off, you were raised a Green Party member.  You always voted Green.  This year, you announced you'd be voting Democratic.  You were very vocal about Jill Stein being an embarrassment.  You're also a Black woman and so there were other revelations for you.

Ann: I had no idea just how much racism there was in this country.  None.  I knew it was out there.  I liked to think it decreased with each year.  I mean, Cedric and I have two kids.  I had thought they were growing up in a country that was getting better and better.  That's not the case.  Kamala was the most qualified candidate.  And the White progressives are forever showing up after the election talking about how Black women as a group repeatedly vote for the Democratic Party nominee. Is Laura Flanders semi-closeted?  I can never keep up.  She was an out lesbian for years when she was doing a public radio program.  Then she went to work for AIR AMERICA RADIO and ran back in the closet.  I think she's out again but I can't keep track of her or her cowardly ways.  She's the worst among the White women.  She'll start extolling Black women after a presidential election and talking about how we saved the election for the Democrat.  That's her posing on air.  She's not a Democrat and didn't even vote for John Kerry -- though she pretended over night on AIR AMERICA RADIO the night of that election that she had voted for Kerry and that she was a Democrat only revealing a couple of years later that she voted for the Green.  At any rate, shove your garbage talk about Black women back up your ass, Laura.  She couldn't stay off INSTAGRAM with her attacks on Kamala as the election approached. Betrayal?  Black women turned out for the Democratic Party over and over and here was one of us, a couple of yards from the presidency, and you could have elevated us and showed us support but instead you showed your racism and ripped us apart.

Cedric: I want to build on Ann's point in a way that people haven't.  Reparations.  We supposedly believe in them.  Now a big cash check to every Black person?  I don't think that's going to happen in my lifetime.  So I tend to advocate for scholarships and assistance and investment into Black communities -- for reparations payments to happen that way.  I don't see most White people going for individual checks -- not even on the left -- because it becomes a wah-wah where's my check too?  Kamala Harris was the most qualified candidate in that race.  And if you truly believed in reparations on any level, you should have voted for her grasping the historical importance of voting for the most qualified candidate when she was Black.  But various people on the left -- a lot of them White -- refused to support reparations and put a Black woman in the White House.  So Laura Flanders, Amy Goodman, Katrina vanden Heuvel and all you other White fake asses grasp that we see you for the racists you truly are.   And we don't need to hear from you and we don't want to hear from you.

Jim: I think Cedric's pulled us into the heart of this roundtable.  We were trying to approach it.  Ruth you wrote down that you wanted to address Gaza Freaks so I'm going to toss to you.

Ruth: Something cruel and criminal has been taking place in Gaza since October of last year.  Many people became part of a movement to stop it.  The Gaza Freaks were the loudest and they'd pretend that they were the first.  They are, always, the first to turn people off to the cause.  That is due to the fact that they are off putting and crazy.  They worked overtime to elect Satan by advancing grifter Jill Stein and/or advocating for Satan and attacking Kamala Harris.  They did not put the Palestinians first.  They lied and told everyone not to vote for Vice President Harris.  Now Satan's headed back to the White House and they want to pretend that's not their fault, they want to pretend that Satan's decision to destroy Gaza is not their fault.  Yes, it is.  You freaks cannot elect anyone but you damn sure can ensure that the wrong person gets into the White House.

Isaiah: And I'm not working with the Gaza Freaks.  They're dishonest liars.  I will never work with them on any issue.  If they're included, I'll find another action to take part in.

Rebecca: And that is the reaction. I've spoken out for the Palestinians since college.  I would often cry about the fact that they didn't get their support they needed and that they were being slaughtered.  We're going back to college years.  C.I. would talk realistically to me.  She'd note what could be done at this moment and what couldn't be done and why.  It went to the fact that the US people had a view of the Israeli state and that they conflated that state with people being Jewish.  It went to our government's relationship with the Israeli government.  When the illegal Iraq War started, C.I. noted that this would help the Palestinian people by educating Americans on occupations.  October 7th saw the Israeli government finally overplay their hand.  And C.I. and other non-Gaza Freaks shaped a message day after day that the American people could embrace.  And the shift is finally taking place.  Enter the Gaza Freaks.  It's really over now.  You would need people like C.I. who know how to shape an argument and how to win support.  And she's not going to work with the Gaza Freaks.  She's not the only one.  COMMON DREAMS, every weekend, tries to highlight some London protest for Palestinians.  They have to go to London because Gaza Freaks burned the bridge in America.  They put Donald Trump back into the White House and no one's forgiving them for that.  Nor should they.

Mike: I'll jump in.  I'm someone coming to the issue late.  And I didn't have strong beliefs one way or the other until October and the way that coverage was addressing it.  I cared about the Palestinians. CODE PINK and it's ancient 'leadership' didn't make that happen.  Amy Goodman and her half-truths didn't make it happen.  It was the people who led on it for the first time following October 7th.  They set new parameters and they made real arguments.  The Gaza Freaks?  They worked for decades and never managed to shift US opinion.  So now they're back in charge and America just doesn't care -- more likely just doesn't care to be working with those fringe freaks.  We still care about the Palestinian people.  But the Gaza Freaks ensured Trump got elected and, in doing so, they ensured the deaths of Palestinians will continue.

Ty: The Gaza Freaks also threatened and bullied and attacked Black people -- especially Black women -- online.  And that's not forgotten.  It's not acceptable.  And I'm not going to pet them on the head and act like they're cuddly and cute.  They're racist, they're sexist and they're homophobes.  And when  Orange Cheeto rains hell down on them, they have only themselves to blame.  They showed the Black community their true nature and we're done.

Stan: I cover entertainment at my site but I do watch and learn.  And there were times something would be in the news and I could argue it was entertainment related and cover it and using the tools C.I. repeatedly accessed while writing at THE COMMON ILLS, I would get some e-mails saying that they hadn't seen the Palestinian issue that way before.  But, like Mike said, it's going to need a full revamp at this point.  The Gaza Freaks took over and sent everyone running off over disgust with the Gaza Freaks.  It's a real setback for the Palestinian cause.

Marcia: Let's remember that the Gaza Freaks includes people of Dearborn and Hamtramck.  Let's remember that these people are homophobes.  I'm a lesbian, that's not minor to me.  These people have spent the last four years in their respective cities getting into bed with the fright-wing and working to destroy rights for LGBTQ+ people.  In Hamtramck, from WIKIPEDIA:

On June 13, 2023, the city council introduced a resolution prohibiting the display on city property of all flags but the American flag and “nations’ flags that represent the international character of [the] City,” which many interpreted as an indirectly targeted ban of the rainbow flag on city property and sidewalks, which had previously been the source of controversy among some residents.^[88] Following three hours of public comment, the council passed the resolution unanimously.^[89] Mayor Amer Ghalib opposed displaying the pride flag, but former mayor Karen Majewski had supported displaying it.^[90] The council also voted to remove two commissioners of the Hamtramck Human Rights Commissioner for flying the rainbow flag.^[91][92][93] The move was criticized by senator Stephanie Chang, U.S. representatives Shri Thanedar and Rashida Tlaib, and Detroit mayor Mike Duggan.^[94][95]

In response to a decision by the city council, multiple activist groups organized into a coalition opposing the flag restrictions. The founding group consisted of individual activists, AntiTransphobe Detroit, Michigan General Defense Committee, and the Hamtramck Queer Alliance. Notable speakers at the event were Dana Nessel, Rev. Strickland, Grace of AtA, and Josh of HQA.^[96]

Marcia (Con't): This isn't pie in the sky for me.  I have a wife.  We're both Black.  I have no sympathy for homophobes.  But the Gaza Freaks are homophobes.  And the Pride flag flew continuously up until Hamtramck got their all Muslim city council.  And they decided to celebrate by attacking LGBTQ+ people.  A detail semi-closeted Laura Flanders will never tell you.  Apparently, she doesn't love her wife or feel the need to protect her.  The Gaza Freaks are on their own.  They can rot in hell and I won't work up a tear.  

Elaine: Here's the thing that boggles.  Ralph Nader ran in 2000.  His actions put Bully Boy Bush in the White House.  The response was that Ralph became a pariah.  Not just among Democrats, organizations that he had started had to draw a line between him and them.  In 2004, the Greens ran on a safe state strategy to try to appease.  They didn't appease anything.  Ralph resulted in the Iraq War.  He won't own it but he's part of the reason for it.  So it's 2024 and the grifter Jill Stein is back.  How f**king stupid and uninformed were the Gaza Freaks?  Starting their Abandon Biden and then Abandon Harris 'movements.'  There was always going to be a backlash.  They didn't care.  And now you've got people who don't care about the killing going on in Gaza. You don't take the stand they did unless you're brain dead.  I'm not on TIKTOK and have never been but I want to repeat a point that's made by Tabitha of TABITHA SPEAKS.  These Gaza Freaks were all over TIKTOK attacking Black women for supporting Kamala.  Attacking them, attacking Kamala.  How did they think this was going to help the Palestinians?  It's not.  And when you are leading a 'movement' entitled Abandon Biden and then Abandon Harris, don't pretend you're trying to push them or nudge them.  You've declared you're not voting for them.

Betty: Yet whores like Amy Goodman still promoted them in lying segments as people trying to push Kamala.  No, they weren't.  Elaine, sorry, didn't mean to cut you off.  You're making important points.

Elaine: You're right there was "Uncommitted" and then there was Abandon Harris in the lead up to the general election and the press -- especially beggar media -- repeatedly treated Abandon Harris as though they were uncommitted. No, they'd already said they weren't voting for Kamala -- a decision most in Michigan made when Donald Trump's boy Michael Flynn visited them with a little cash and a lot of promises.  Empty promises.

Jim: C.I., you've been looking at your phone.  Did you want to say something?

C.I.: All I want to say right now is thank you to Marcia.  I was unaware that Laura Flanders was part of the pile on effort to destroy Kamala.  I will add her to my s**t list but that's all I'm saying right now because I have a series of e-mails from Laura that I never planned to speak of.  Her efforts that landed Trump back in the White House mean those e-mails may no longer be private.  I'm going to have to think on that.

Marcia: You are welcome and burn that b**ch's playhouse down, burn it down.

Jim: Okay, Betty, we need to wrap up so let's go to you.

Betty: The Gaza Freaks harassed and attacked Black women.  We, Black women, were seeing the first Black woman to be  a serious contender for the presidency.  And Gaza Freaks and racists like Amy Goodman and Katrina vanden Heuvel couldn't let us have joy, couldn't let us celebrate.  We were attacked online for supporting Kamala.  She was also the best choice on Gaza.  Black women saw what went down and racism and sexism prevented Kamala from becoming president.  We don't owe you s**t.  We marched with you, we protested with you, we lobbied our Congressional reps with you.  And here was the time for you to say, "Let's reciprocate."  But you didn't.  And it wasn't because of where she stood on Gaza. The Medea Benjamin's pretended it was but it's not why.  And the end result is you stabbed us in the back.  Some Black women are done being the free labor for the left.  You showed no gratitude.  You worked overtime to embrace racism.  Some of us will come back in a bit, some of more slowly and some of us never.  You revealed what you really think which is that you will gladly take our slave labor but you will never vote to elevate us to the post of president. 

Jim: And that's going to be the final word.  This is a rush transcript, thank you to Ava and C.I. who took notes.