Dona: Betty's kids did the illustration so let's start with Betty. Most pressing issue in Iraq right now?
Betty: That's a hard one. I could go with Basra and I think I should but I'll go with the fact that there's no prime minister. Still. No, new prime minister.
Dona: Right, no new prime minister. It's still Hayder al-Abadi who was installed in the fall of 2014 by then-US President Barack Obama.
Rebecca: And he remains in place despite the fact that Iraq held elections May 12th. And despite the fact that Iraq is experiencing a great deal of turmoil. In fact, Moqtada al-Sadr has called for Abadi to step aside and for a caretaker government to be in place until the government can be decided on.
Dona: The new government, yes. For background, I would refer people to C.I.'s "The never-ending Iraq elections" back in June and this is from that, just to go over the basics:
May 12th, Iraq held national elections. Ahead of the elections, there had been big hopes -- these hopes included a large turnout. Ali Jawad (ANADOLU AGENCY) noted, "A total of 24 million Iraqis are eligible to cast their ballots to elect members of parliament, who will in turn elect the Iraqi president and prime minister." RUDAW added, "Around 7,000 candidates have registered to stand in the May 12 poll, with 329 parliamentary seats up for grabs." AFP explained that the nearly 7,000 candidates includes 2014 women. THE SIASAT DAILY added, of the nearly 7,000 candidates, "According to the electoral commission, only 20 percent of the candidates are newcomers." Ali Abdul-Hassan and Sinan Salaheddin (AP) reported, "Iraqi women account for 57 percent of Iraq’s population of over 37 million, according to the U.N. Development Program, and despite government efforts to address gender inequality, the situation for Iraqi women has declined steadily since 2003. According to the UNDP, one in every 10 Iraqi households is headed by a widow. In recent years, Iraqi women suffered further economic, social and political marginalization due to decades of wars, conflict, violence and sanctions."
The other big hope? For the US government, the biggest hope was that Hayder al-Abadi's bloc would come in first so that he would have a second term as prime minister. It was not to be. Mustapha Karkouti (GULF NEWS) identifies the key issues as follows, "Like in previous elections, the main concerns of ordinary Iraqis continue to be the lack of security and the rampant corruption."
As we noted the day of the election:
Corruption is a key issue and it was not a topic explored by candidates outside of Moqtada al-Sadr's coalition. Empty lip service was offered. Hayder al-Abadi, current prime minister, had been offering empty lip service for four years. He did nothing. Iraqis were supposed to think that, for example, Hayder's focus on ISIS in Mosul mattered. All life was supposed to stop because of Mosul? All expectations were to be ignored because of Mosul?
Arabic social media today and yesterday was full of comments about the lack of improvement in services. It noted how the elections had not mattered before and, yes, how in 2010 the US government overturned the elections because they didn't like the outcome.
So it was probably only surprising to the US government and their press hacks that Hayder wouldn't come in first. But that was after the votes were counted. On the day of the election, the big news was how so few were turning out to vote. NPR reported, "With more than 90 percent of the votes in, Iraq's election commission announced voter turnout of 44.5 percent. The figure is down sharply from 60 percent of eligible voters who cast their ballots in the last elections in 2014." AP pointed out the obvious, "No election since 2003 saw turnout below 60 percent." AFP broke it down even more clearly "More than half of the nearly 24.5 million voters did not show up at the ballot box in the parliamentary election, the highest abstention rate since the first multiparty elections in 2005 [. . .]."
Why should they vote? The US government had repeatedly selected the prime minister -- 2006, 2010 and 2014. Why should they vote? The government was corrupt. Why should they vote? Safety? Lip service was given to the claim that ISIS had been defeated but it hadn't. In fact, Margaret Griffis (ANTIWAR.COM) reported that 16 people were killed and nineteen wounded the day of the election.
Martin Chulov (GUARDIAN) captured the mood, "But as voters trudged towards polling stations, there was none of the euphoria of previous polls – where purple ink-dipped fingers were happily displayed – and almost no energy surrounding the process. Iraqis had done it all before, and elections had delivered little."
Sunday the 13th, votes were counted and the first place winner? Shi'ite cleric and movement leader Moqtada al-Sadr.
Dona (Con't): I could quote from the whole thing. A word to everybody participating, I'll be copying and pasting that in and adding the link. If you reference something in this roundtable which has a link, please i.m. or e-mail me the link. Okay, so they held elections May 12th. Still no prime minister -- despite the recount and despite the recount being completed and even despite the recount producing the same results.
Cedric: They did, last Saturday, finally elect a Speaker of Parliament -- I'll send you a link to C.I.'s "Iraq snapshot" for Monday on that. But they did manage to do that. Traditionally, however, this first meeting of the new Parliament, where they elect the Speaker of Parliament, they also name the new president of Iraq -- which they did not do -- and the new President then announces the prime minister-designate -- which also didn't happen. And still hasn't. It's four months after the election and that still hasn't happened.
Betty: And while it's true that it took them eight months to form a government after the March 2010 elections, this delay is not only embarrassing, it's troubling with regards to Basra and other events. And four months is really inexcusable and goes to the lack of impetus among the players -- an attitude that has, my opinion, helped to destroy Iraq as much as certain leaders like Hayder and Nouri al-Maliki before him.
Elaine: I would strongly agree with Betty on that. I also think that a real reason for the delay has been the US government's inabilities as well. They were unable to see the results.
Mike: Shi'ite cleric and movement leader Moqtada al-Sadr came in first, Hadi al-Ameri leads the Shi'ite militias and he came in second and, in distant third, there was Hayder al-Abadi.
Elaine: They really thought, the US government did, that Hayder was going to sweep the elections. Not only did they think it, they put the prediction out to their stenographers in the press who duly repeated it.
Rebecca: I would like to jump in there. When Moqtada's coalition began forming ahead of the elections, he was repeatedly ridiculed by many who write about Iraq. 'Oh, he's making a coalition with the Communists! Ha ha ha!' It was ridiculed and mocked. C.I. did not mock it. Nor did she see Hayder coasting to victory. She stood alone in raising real issues -- voter dissatisfaction and corruption, to name two -- and questioning the narrative/myth that Hayder would be easily re-elected because he had vanquished ISIS.
Cedric: Right. And the press bought and repeated those lies. That's another reason they -- and the US government -- were taken by surprise. As C.I. noted repeatedly, long before the elections, ISIS remained active in Iraq. And she noted that the Iraqis were aware of that. Hayder had nothing to run on. He was a failure in the eyes of the Iraqis.
Elaine: Well the US government would not admit that. They were selling the notion that he'd defeated ISIS, when he hadn't. They were very vested in that lie. They were shocked by the outcome -- not just Hayder coming in third but also the very strong showing by the Shi'ite militias under Hadi al-Ameri. Hadi and company were more popular with voters than Hayder was. Of course, the biggest shock for the US government was Moqtada's first place showing. Moqtada's long been in the cross hairs of the US government.
Kat: Right, the US press tends to call him "radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr." This is not me saying, "Let us all hail Moqtada," but it bears noting that he has matured. Whether he will be good for the Iraqi people -- and I don't mean as prime minister. He can't be prime minister because he himself did not run or Parliament. You have to be a member of Parliament to become the prime minister. But whether he will be good for the Iraqi people, I have no idea. His studies in Iran and other actions have led to some maturity. His return in 2011 to Iraq showed his power was still there. And he's gone on to be a powerful voice -- especially against corruption.
Wally: My opinion? The US government has no problem with corruption in Iraq. Corruption keeps the puppets happy and keeps these officials from focusing on building a strong Iraq. The US government wants to keep Iraq weak to control it. And I'll offer one example of how little the US government cares about corruption in Iraq. I can remember us attending Congressional hearings regularly on that topic. The US Congress today, and of the last eight years, is not at all interested in exploring or examining corruption in Iraq -- no matter how many US tax dollars get sent over to the country.
Ava: I'll offer another example to back up Wally's point. Stuart Bowen. Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstuction. Under Bully Boy Bush, Bowen reported regularly to the Congress -- and to the American people -- about corruption in Iraq. Democrats in Congress had wanted this role and him in this role. But Barack becomes president and suddenly there is the push to do away with the position even though, as early as 2012, Bowen is publicly stressing that the position -- whether he's in it or not -- should not be abolished. Despite that, Barack abolishes it and it hasn't existed since October of 2013.
Wally: Good point.
Dona: So now it's four months later and still no prime minister. Moqtada's right to call for someone other than Hayder to act as the caretaker government because Hayder is so awful. C.I., could you note some examples?
C.I.: I'll leave out the Basra specific issues because I know some people want to address that. But not only did Hayder not defeat ISIS, it remains active in Iraq. Some Shi'ite politicians -- including those with Hadi al-Ameri's group -- the militias -- are calling for an amendment to the Constitution to change Iraq from a parliamentary based government to a presidential one. Some protesters have been calling for that as well. The thought is that the prime ministers have been weak but making it a presidential system would increase the government's strength. Iraq has severe water issues -- first off, the water is dwindling, second off water for the people is often bad and lands them, in Basra, in the hospital. Water and electricity, all these years later, remain public services that are not dependable. Hayder had four years and he did nothing. He and the US government though he could campaign as the man who defeated ISIS. He didn't defeat ISIS and that wasn't enough. Nor should it be. People have basic needs and despite Iraq being oil rich the needs go unmet. The politicians and officials get rich and the people get robbed. Iraq has no functioning government -- not just since the election but throughout the last four years -- if you judge functioning to mean meeting the needs of the people.
Dona: Okay, let's move over to Basra. Ruth said she wanted to talk Basra so let's start with her.
Ruth: We have failed the people of Basra -- we being the people of the world. Basra protesters stood up back in July. They were immediately attacked by the government -- this included an internet blackout, this including the Iraqi forces being sicked on them. We refused to stand with them. Fortunately, they have gone on. They have protested and protested and continue to protest. This is not a blip, it is now months long. And they do not get the respect, even now, that they deserve from the international community. The so-called 'resistance' has no idea what's going on in Iraq and they do not care. They'll mention Iraq, in terms of the past, to prop up Al Gore or to whine. But they don't follow Iraq and they don't care about the Iraqi people. This was made very clear by their refusal to use their voices to defend the people in Basra.
Dona: And a few reasons why they are protesting, Ruth?
Ruth: The drinking water is making them sick. Over 70 people have had to go to the hospital due to drinking the water. There are no jobs. None at all. They are oil rich in Basra but there are no jobs. There is no electricity they can count on and this was summer where the temperature was often over 120 degrees. The corruption, the lack of actual representation. The oppression. The attacks on the protesters. All of these things and more have fueld the protests.
Dona: And a few reasons why they are protesting, Ruth?
Ruth: The drinking water is making them sick. Over 70 people have had to go to the hospital due to drinking the water. There are no jobs. None at all. They are oil rich in Basra but there are no jobs. There is no electricity they can count on and this was summer where the temperature was often over 120 degrees. The corruption, the lack of actual representation. The oppression. The attacks on the protesters. All of these things and more have fueld the protests.
Cedric: Support for Ruth just did said. They are fake asses and they want to whine about Donald Trump but they don't want to take on the US government, they don't want to call out real abuse. The Debra Messing are especially pathetic. The Patty Arquettes. I mean they are the definition of "bimbo." Or of "White bimbo," if you prefer. They have no compassion for the world. They have no concern for the world. They slam a Susan Sarandon who has stood up against the Iraq War and they lap at the crotch of Hillary Clinton who helped unleash the Iraq War. They need to sit their tired asses down.
Betty: Absolutely. They whine repeatedly that Susan has hurt minorities. No, she's helped. Her actions, including opposing the Iraq War, have helped people of color around the world. Debra Messing is the White priviliged bitch who needs to STFU. She's done nothing and she never will. Oh, wait. She's moved her hair part to the side in response to people pointing out that her middle hair part was showing how bald she was going. That's really all Debra Messing has done. The Iraq War is ongoing. The Iraq War has killed millions and injured even more. The Iraq War has turned Iraq into a land of orphans and widows. And Debra won't touch that because that would require removing her tongue from Hillary Clinton's vagina. Hillary Clinton is a War Monger. I can say it. I supported her in 2007 and 2008. Check here, check my website. And I didn't believe she was a War Monger. I thought Iraq was a deviation and not who she really was. But then she becomes Secretary of State and it's war and more war. Her support for war on Libya cannot be forgiven. F**k White girl Debra Messing. In Libya we now have Black Libyans being sold into slavery which did not happen until after the war on Libya. I get it, Debra's an entitled bitch who doesn't grasp how awful and evil slavery is. I get it. Debra's idea of helping is to Tweet that she just finished watching ROOTS on TV. But the reality is that Hillary is a War Monger and, around the world, people suffer because of that. I supported her in 2008. I did not support her in 2016. And if that bothers Debra Messing, tell her she can kiss my Black ass and that I've never seen her do a damn thing for the people of the world or for Black America. She needs to realize that no one looks up to her but idiotic partisans who can't think and were never educated. The people of Basra are under attack and Debra can't be bothered with them, she's apparently too busy rushing off to some Klan rally. Again, she can kiss my Black ass.
Mike: These idiots are the worst and that includes Patricia Arquette. They don't care about war, they don't care about people being killed. All they care about is that their 'girl' didn't become president. Whine, whine, whine. I supported Bernie Sanders. He didn't get the nomination. I have not turned my every day since 2016 into whining about poor Bernie.
Dona: And, in fact, he would not be your first choice for president in 2020. You've blogged about this at your site.
Mike: Right. My dream candidate would be Tulsi Gabbard. I think she would be amazing as president and focus on issues that would better the country and the world.
Elaine: It is amazing how little we focus on policies -- let alone policies that could improve our lives -- in the US media. Cindy Sheehan and others -- can we stick the Tweet in here, Dona -- are marching for issues that actually matter but you won't hear about that not even on our 'left' station MSNBC.
Dona: I will absolutely stick that Tweet in and Cindy Sheehan, Cynthia McKinney and other brave women are leading this march that matters.
Rebecca: Let's note that 'non-partisan' NOW is not promoting it. But yet they used to have a little bird up, a dove, on their website with the phrase "Peace is a feminist issue." No more.
Wally: I'm sorry, I know we want to wind down but I've got a beef. Building on what Betty and Ruth said, I'd like to note that I supported Hillary in 2008. I dropped out of college to campaign for her non-stop. And I don't remember Debra Messing or Patty Arquette. When Hillary was the target of real sexism? I remember Patty and Debra supporting Barack Obama and I remember them being silent on the sexism. I remember Chris Matthews saying Hillary only got voted into the Senate because of sympathy because Bill cheated on her. I remember Chris and others on MSNBC cackling over the nutcrackers being sold with Hillary's figure on them -- her legs cracked the nuts. I remember guys screaming at her "Iron my shirts!" I remember Bill Moyers using PBS to spread the lie that Hillary Clinton cried over her own looks, not over people killed or Katrina but over her looks. I remember Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews and so many more saying she hadn't done anything, had nothing to run for president on. Just that, as with the Senate, her husband cheated on her. I remember Katie Couric -- not Debra Messing, not Patricia Arquette -- calling out the sexist attacks on Hillary and the response was to attack Katie -- that includes MSNBC's biggest blowhard at the time Keith Olbermann who deemed Katie worst person of the week for calling out the sexism. Eight years after all of that, Debbie Messing and Patty Arquette want to show up and pretend they've supported women all along. They haven't. They need to shut their damn, lying mouths and stick their heads back in the sand because nobody needs dentally challenged Patty or alapetia Debbie telling them what to think.
Dona: Woah. I think we'll end on that note. Again, this is a rush transcript.
