Only a day after the final CIA whitewash of its unconstitutional spying
on the Senate Intelligence Committee, documents released by the agency
reveal that the Obama White House knew in advance that CIA operatives
had been ordered to investigate the legislative panel, which has legal
responsibility for overseeing the agency.
-- Thomas Gaist, Patrick Martin, "Behind whitewash of CIA spying: The trail leads to the White House" (WSWS).
Monday, January 19, 2015
A note to our readers
Hey --
Monday.
First, we thank all who participated this edition which includes Dallas and the following:
The Third Estate Sunday Review's Jim, Dona, Ty, Jess and Ava,
Rebecca of Sex and Politics and Screeds and Attitude,
Betty of Thomas Friedman Is a Great Man,
C.I. of The Common Ills and The Third Estate Sunday Review,
Kat of Kat's Korner (of The Common Ills),
Mike of Mikey Likes It!,
Elaine of Like Maria Said Paz),
Cedric of Cedric's Big Mix,
Ruth of Ruth's Report,
Wally of The Daily Jot,
Trina of Trina's Kitchen,
Marcia of SICKOFITRDLZ,
Stan of Oh Boy It Never Ends,
Isaiah of The World Today Just Nuts,
and Ann of Ann's Mega Dub.
It was a long edition.
And Ava and C.I. said last night, a two in the morning, "Enough."
They meant it.
They were also supported by Dona, Ty and Jess.
And what needs to happen now is that we work better and more focused. I get that.
This is the third time we've published on a Monday.
We'd all like it to be the last.
And what did we come up with?
Mike and the gang wrote this and we thank them for it.
Peace.
-- Jim, Dona, Ty, Jess, Ava and C.I.
Monday.
First, we thank all who participated this edition which includes Dallas and the following:
The Third Estate Sunday Review's Jim, Dona, Ty, Jess and Ava,
Rebecca of Sex and Politics and Screeds and Attitude,
Betty of Thomas Friedman Is a Great Man,
C.I. of The Common Ills and The Third Estate Sunday Review,
Kat of Kat's Korner (of The Common Ills),
Mike of Mikey Likes It!,
Elaine of Like Maria Said Paz),
Cedric of Cedric's Big Mix,
Ruth of Ruth's Report,
Wally of The Daily Jot,
Trina of Trina's Kitchen,
Marcia of SICKOFITRDLZ,
Stan of Oh Boy It Never Ends,
Isaiah of The World Today Just Nuts,
and Ann of Ann's Mega Dub.
It was a long edition.
And Ava and C.I. said last night, a two in the morning, "Enough."
They meant it.
They were also supported by Dona, Ty and Jess.
And what needs to happen now is that we work better and more focused. I get that.
This is the third time we've published on a Monday.
We'd all like it to be the last.
And what did we come up with?
A very important WSWS article.
Twitters and columnists and trash need stop pretending they care about Iraq. If they want to attack the film American Sniper, do so. Just don't pretend you're doing it because you give a damn about Iraq.
Ava and C.I. explains why one family comedy works and another didn't.
Barack does the robot.
The statements we quote in this piece are legal. The people have a right to make them. But let's not pretend that they enrich the conversation or win converts to the left.
I begged C.I. for this. She was going to put it up at The Common Ills on Sunday.
Greg Mitchell notices reality.
It escapes Max.
As it does David Corn.
Really? Are we going to be the only ones who note the tight little frame, the manarexia?
Repost from Great Britain's Socialist Worker.
Repost from Michigan Greens.
Mike and the gang wrote this and we thank them for it.
Peace.
-- Jim, Dona, Ty, Jess, Ava and C.I.
Editorial: You might be a worthless sack of s**t if . . .
Art, or at least pop culture, means a great deal to many.
Believe us, we know.
For ten years, at this site Ava and C.I. have covered TV and their work is always the most read article of every weekly edition.
And it's always the most controversial.
Tip for pop culture writers, going after teeny boppers will resort in death threats.
In 2006, Ava and C.I. wrote "TV: Jessica Simpson and Nick Lachey Reporting for Duty" and the death threats poured in.
So we get that American Sniper is a topic.
But what we won't allow for is the lies the grandstanding seems to involve.
A lot little sacks of s**t pretend they give a damn about Iraq as they slam the film.
But have these worthless jaw boners Tweeted about the War Crimes of the Iraqi military bombing residential neighborhoods in Falluja -- for over a year now -- and wounding and killing civilians?
Nope.
Have they called out all the foreign troops flooding into Iraq?
Nope.
They look the other way.
Here?
We always called for foreign troops to leave Iraqi soil.
We still do.
And if you go beyond the prime minister, Haider al-Abadi, you'll find many Iraqi leaders who are calling for the latest US-led coalition to leave Iraq.
It's really interesting how, Tweeting or op-eding about American Sniper requires that these worthless sacks of s**t pretend that they care about Iraq when the reality is they don't cover it, they don't follow it and they don't give a damn.
Believe us, we know.
For ten years, at this site Ava and C.I. have covered TV and their work is always the most read article of every weekly edition.
And it's always the most controversial.
Tip for pop culture writers, going after teeny boppers will resort in death threats.
In 2006, Ava and C.I. wrote "TV: Jessica Simpson and Nick Lachey Reporting for Duty" and the death threats poured in.
So we get that American Sniper is a topic.
But what we won't allow for is the lies the grandstanding seems to involve.
A lot little sacks of s**t pretend they give a damn about Iraq as they slam the film.
But have these worthless jaw boners Tweeted about the War Crimes of the Iraqi military bombing residential neighborhoods in Falluja -- for over a year now -- and wounding and killing civilians?
Nope.
Have they called out all the foreign troops flooding into Iraq?
Aussies do heavy lifting in Iraq as Euro troops go missing in action http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australian-troops-face-threat-in-iraq-amid-slow-international-response-20150119-12tkmy.html …
Nope.
They look the other way.
Here?
We always called for foreign troops to leave Iraqi soil.
We still do.
And if you go beyond the prime minister, Haider al-Abadi, you'll find many Iraqi leaders who are calling for the latest US-led coalition to leave Iraq.
It's really interesting how, Tweeting or op-eding about American Sniper requires that these worthless sacks of s**t pretend that they care about Iraq when the reality is they don't cover it, they don't follow it and they don't give a damn.
TV: As The Millers sank, The McCarthys rose
Jerry Van Dyke kept plugging away.
Failure on The Judy Garland Show led to failure on My Mother The Car to failure on Accidental Family to failure on Headmaster to failure on 13 Queens Boulevard . . .
Finally, in 1989, he clicked on Coach.
Failure on The Judy Garland Show led to failure on My Mother The Car to failure on Accidental Family to failure on Headmaster to failure on 13 Queens Boulevard . . .
Finally, in 1989, he clicked on Coach.
Is Will Arnett the new Jerry Van Dyke?
And if so, how much slack should he be cut?
We'd argue none -- but then, we've watched his work.
There was some confusion over CBS’ recent decision to axe
The Millers and keep The McCarthys.
The move made perfect sense.
What didn't make sense, what never made sense, was axing
Robin William's The Crazy Ones last spring but renewing The Millers.
Unlike The Crazy Ones, The Millers had no lovable lead
performer.
In a supporting role, it did have Beau Bridges doing incredible work and making
you believe you were watching a better show than you were.
Margo Martindale showed up as Margo Miller and gave the same performance she
delivered in Justified and in The Americans.
Problem was, in both of those series, she was playing murderous
sociopaths -- one so awful in The Americans that you cheered Elizabeth (Keri Russell) beating the crap out of Martindale's Claudia in the first season episode "Trust Me."
Despite still playing a sociopath on The Millers, she was supposed to be the difficult but lovable
mom.
It never worked throughout season one. The actress wasn't
coming across to the viewers. A season
two fix, giving her a best friend (played by Sean Hayes), improved things a bit
but they never should have cast the woman to begin with.
It's not that the actress was straining under the weight of
attempting to play the part – it's that she didn't even try to create a new character. This is a role Swoosie Kurtz could have
tossed off while getting highlights and a pedicure. But it was beyond the scope of Martindale.
The show could have survived that.
If that was the only problem, it could have survived it.
When an actor can't come across, you play up the others in
the cast and let them define the actor who was unable to define her role.
But the only one able to act on the show was Beau Bridges.
In fairness, Beau has more than talent, he has confidence.
So his underwritten role was never going to hold him
back.
Two other members of the supporting cast (Jayma Mays and Nelson Franklin) delivered when they
were allowed to by the script but mostly they were after thoughts.
The focus was on one performer: Will Arnett.
And that’s a lot of camera time for someone who not only
showed all they could offer in a single episode of Will & Grace ("Back Up Dancer" -- playing Karen's former lover Artemis Johnson) but also
for someone who quickly wears out his welcome.
If a live action film of Penelope Pitstop is ever made,
Arnett will be perfect for the role of Sylvester Sneekly.
Up to and until then, he’s someone who needs to be used in
very small doses -- the way 30 Rock did with him as Devon Banks.
With Arnett, a dab will do you.
Anything more and you’re gasping for air because he doesn't
so much captivate as he suffocates.
Building a show around him will always be problematic.
He’s just not likable.
So cast him as the ultimate villain!
That would only work if he had the depth to carry it off.
Time and again, he’s demonstrated that he doesn't. Again, he showed all he had in a single
episode of Will & Grace.
Will Arnett did have a hit show under his belt.
He was the third lead (third adult lead, anyway) in Up All
Night.
And as the third lead, very secondary to Christina Applegate
and Maya Rudolph, he worked.
Then came season two and Arnett’s preening ego and the
re-plotted show lost all the humor as well as the audience it had built up.
With such limited talent, we don’t blame him for grabbing anything
offered but we do fault CBS for casting him in the lead.
He’s not a generous actor and Margo Martindale was left on her own to
twist in the wind as Arnett bulldozed his way through one scene after another.
The Millers gave you no reason to care.
The McCarthys are already neighbors and guests in viewers’
homes.
Welcome guests.
Laurie Metcalf heads the Irish clan and she’s a performer
who truly comes alive in the sitcom format. The Emmy winner has done outstanding work on Roseanne, the highly underrated The Norm Show, Getting On, The Big Bang Theory and now in The McCarthys.
She leads a very strong cast on the CBS sitcom -- one that feels like a family.
The Millers were never a family. That was the other obstacle the sitcom couldn't
overcome.
It was another oddity from Greg Garcia. He pulled off Raising Hope (or, rather,
Martha Plimpton did) but most of his shows have limited shelf life because they're
freak shows.
If you're offended by that, be offended by the fact that he
keeps creating characters he looks down on.
In show after show, he's making a point to insist he's
better than these stupid idiots he creates.
And then he wants you to laugh at them.
Not with them.
At them.
Sean McCarthy is not a smart person.
But he's a person (brought to life by the strong performance of Jimmy Dunn) -- not a
sketch.
And he's a person you can recognize and relate to.
That's true of Ronnie of course.
"Of course" because The McCarthys wasn't thought up in some
b.s. pitch seesion(“The ma’s a controlling bitch, the son’s a TV anchor . . .”). It’s based on Ronnie’s life.
Or, rather, it's based on Brian Gallivan's life.
It's not autobiography, but creator Gallivan is openly gay and his family is in Boston.
Tyler Ritter's done a great job bringing Ronnie to life. (Yes, Tyler is the son of the late John Ritter.) And Tyler deserves a great deal of credit for his timing as well as his acting chops. But anytime you've got a character who is real and relatable, you're not having to play catch up or create a grand backstory to try to make sense of the character.
It's an amazing cast which also includes strong work by Kelen Coleman and Jack McGee and, especially, Joey McIntyre. (Yes, he is the Joey McIntyre of New Kids On The Block.) Gerard is a real ass. Sometimes, he's a smart ass. Sometimes he's just an ass. McIntyre has brought the character to life in such a way that even as you groan over Gerard's latest remark or stunt (or bringing his frightmare of a girlfriend -- Jessica St. Clair's Katrina -- for a family visit), you don't hate him, you don't dislike him, you don't turn him into Newman. McIntyre's made Gerard a real person.
You care about all the members of the family because you know them or you are them.
The Millers was built around who can say the most
outrageously cruel thing to one another while The McCarthys is built around
something more than bitchy. And, most importantly, The McCarthys is laugh out loud funny.
Kicking It Old School
Barack breaks out the robot and other dance moves to entertain White House visitors.
The Big Ugly: Lindy West
If you missed it, Chris Klye was a pro-war Iraq War veteran. He's the subject of Clint Eastwood's new film American Sniper.
We're not pro-war. We may be one of the only sites that continues to oppose the Iraq War, let alone note it every edition.
We're on record supporting war resisters.
But we don't trash Chris Kyle, who is dead by the way.
He saw the war differently than us.
We saw the war differently than he did.
We expect our position to be treated with respect.
So why would we attack him for his view?
We're not little rat ass babies who lay on the floor kicking our feet and whining.
We noticed maturity on the topic from another person:
But while Jane can offer maturity, a 'writer' she gave a Women's Media Center Award to, Lindy West, can't.
It takes trash, a whole lot of trash to remove humanity from the equation and that's Lindy and her audience.
She writes a stupid piece filled with hate that inspires even more hate when Information Clearing House publishes it.
This is Lindy's audience.
A stupid elderly man who thinks because he avoided Vietnam he's something special.
He's not and his s**t still stinks.
He's an idiot who fancies himself a medical expert with his 'solution' regarding Post-Traumatic Stress.
That's Lindy's audience too.
And let's go ahead and note that's some of the 9-11 Truth Movement.
We're not opposed to that movement. But it needs to be noted that some of the hate that's coming and some of the support for Ventura is about something other than Chris Kyle.
People who rejoice in the deaths of others?
They have no humanity. They've divorced themselves from it.
They flash their ugly online.
While pretending like they exist on a higher plane.
Again, that's Lindy's audience.
And remember "dude" was how Lindy addressed the Women's Media Center ("Dude, we're online!") because that's what 'feminists' do, right?
If you missed it. Lindy and her groupies have refused to call out the Iraqi government bombing Sunni civilians in residential neighborhoods in Falluja -- despite this going on for over a year now.
If you missed it, Lindy and her groupies have failed to call out Barack Obama for arming a government that knowingly and continually kills civilians.
If you missed it, Lindy and her groupies can get outraged over a soldier carrying out orders but never over the ones handing out the orders, making the decisions, starting and continuing the wars.
We're not pro-war. We may be one of the only sites that continues to oppose the Iraq War, let alone note it every edition.
We're on record supporting war resisters.
But we don't trash Chris Kyle, who is dead by the way.
He saw the war differently than us.
We saw the war differently than he did.
We expect our position to be treated with respect.
So why would we attack him for his view?
We're not little rat ass babies who lay on the floor kicking our feet and whining.
We noticed maturity on the topic from another person:
Just saw "American Sniper" Powerful. Another view of "Coming Home." Bradley Cooper sensational. Bravo Clint Eastwood. http://www.americansnipermovie.com/
127 retweets
210 favorites
But while Jane can offer maturity, a 'writer' she gave a Women's Media Center Award to, Lindy West, can't.
It takes trash, a whole lot of trash to remove humanity from the equation and that's Lindy and her audience.
She writes a stupid piece filled with hate that inspires even more hate when Information Clearing House publishes it.
."...well-meaning, often impoverished, non-serial-killer people to do
oppressive things over which they have no control. " I am so sick of the
idea that they have NO CONTROL over what they do. WALK AWAY---PUT DOWN
YOUR GUN---DO NOT JOIN IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! We all have the ultimate
control over what we do. Are those who join the military such COWARDS
that they would rather go to another country and kill complete strangers
on command rather than face the wrath of their so-called "leaders"? It
simply disgusts me every time I hear this ridiculous excuse.
These COWARDS need to grow a spine and make their own decisions about their own lives and stop allowing the corporate state to make all the decisions for them. This simple step will eliminate PTSD and veteran suicides, and will certainly cast the U.S. of A. in a different light to the rest of this world.
These COWARDS need to grow a spine and make their own decisions about their own lives and stop allowing the corporate state to make all the decisions for them. This simple step will eliminate PTSD and veteran suicides, and will certainly cast the U.S. of A. in a different light to the rest of this world.
This is Lindy's audience.
A stupid elderly man who thinks because he avoided Vietnam he's something special.
He's not and his s**t still stinks.
He's an idiot who fancies himself a medical expert with his 'solution' regarding Post-Traumatic Stress.
Eddie Ray Routh, 25, corporal in the Marines, did the world a favor by
eliminating two murderers, Chris Kyle and Kyle’s friend Glen Rose.
Marine Corporal Routh deserves a medal of honor.
Read the article in the hyperlink in the fourth paragraph of the above article. The praises bestowed upon murderer Chris Kyle is sickening.
According to Jesse Ventura, Kyle lied in his autobiography: “At the time of his death, the former Seal was being sued by Jesse Ventura, the former Minnesota governor and ex-professional wrestler, over claims in the book that Kyle punched him in a 2006 bar fight over unpatriotic remarks. Ventura says the punch never happened and that the claim by Kyle defamed him. A trial was due for August this year.”
Clint Eastwood should not have capitalized on this filthy murderer, elevating him as being a hero, making Iraqi victims the bad guys and US American monsters the good guys. Such films justify US wars and murders.
I certainly will not be wasting money and time to see this trash.
Read the article in the hyperlink in the fourth paragraph of the above article. The praises bestowed upon murderer Chris Kyle is sickening.
According to Jesse Ventura, Kyle lied in his autobiography: “At the time of his death, the former Seal was being sued by Jesse Ventura, the former Minnesota governor and ex-professional wrestler, over claims in the book that Kyle punched him in a 2006 bar fight over unpatriotic remarks. Ventura says the punch never happened and that the claim by Kyle defamed him. A trial was due for August this year.”
Clint Eastwood should not have capitalized on this filthy murderer, elevating him as being a hero, making Iraqi victims the bad guys and US American monsters the good guys. Such films justify US wars and murders.
I certainly will not be wasting money and time to see this trash.
That's Lindy's audience too.
And let's go ahead and note that's some of the 9-11 Truth Movement.
We're not opposed to that movement. But it needs to be noted that some of the hate that's coming and some of the support for Ventura is about something other than Chris Kyle.
People who rejoice in the deaths of others?
They have no humanity. They've divorced themselves from it.
They flash their ugly online.
While pretending like they exist on a higher plane.
I am thrilled to bits, that this PIG slaughtered by his own side dude
Just hope that he suffered and tormented in pain before he died
I bet this PIG is illiterate and ignorant of any work Of Humanities, same as the trend with all his kind
Just hope that he suffered and tormented in pain before he died
I bet this PIG is illiterate and ignorant of any work Of Humanities, same as the trend with all his kind
Again, that's Lindy's audience.
And remember "dude" was how Lindy addressed the Women's Media Center ("Dude, we're online!") because that's what 'feminists' do, right?
If you missed it. Lindy and her groupies have refused to call out the Iraqi government bombing Sunni civilians in residential neighborhoods in Falluja -- despite this going on for over a year now.
If you missed it, Lindy and her groupies have failed to call out Barack Obama for arming a government that knowingly and continually kills civilians.
If you missed it, Lindy and her groupies can get outraged over a soldier carrying out orders but never over the ones handing out the orders, making the decisions, starting and continuing the wars.
A few thoughts on movies (C.I.)
Jim: I loved C.I.'s "Iraq snapshot" and wasn't surprised that it had a huge response. While we were on a break, C.I. was typing away and I asked her about it when she took a break for a minute. She was responding to the e-mails and I offered it would be a great piece for Third.
An e-mailer offers, "The victims of Falluja probably got more attention from the snapshot than from anything else you've put up in the last 12 months."
Probably so. Saturday's Iraq snapshot name checked a wide field.
Miriam Hopkins is a name popping up repeatedly in the e-mails to the public account. Miriam was a great actress and not one that's often mentioned today.
We're moving over to the private e-mail account -- which is where community members e-mail. Calvin wonders if I've made an error in saying Jane Fonda couldn't have played Cindy Sheehan because Jane's persona onscreen is (like Susan Sarandon's) a little faster than everyone else she shares the screen with? He points out that Jane did win the Academy Award for Coming Home where she plays a politically awakened character.
Jane did win an Academy Award for that film.
There's always been an argument -- and some book entitled Alternate Oscars, I believe, makes it in print -- that the award should have gone to Jill Clayburgh (for her performance in An Unmarried Woman).
It was a weak year nomination wise.
It's not one of Jane's best performances.
But her career was in shambles due to her political stances (both speaking out and wasting all that time on Tom Hayden's career) and then she rebounded with the huge hit comedy Fun With Dick and Jane -- proving to the studios she was still bankable -- and the critical success of Julia. When she won the award in early 1979, she won it for 1978's Coming Home but also probably for 1978's Comes A Horseman (which was not a hit but had a critically praised performance by Jane) and 1978's California Suite (which was a hit and had a critically praised performance by Jane).
She played three very different characters in films released in 1978 and the most talked about film of the three was Coming Home.
But of the three performances she gave on the big screen in 1978, Coming Home was the weakest.
It remains one of her weakest to this day.
There are a few moments of brilliance to it but it's a saggy performance overall and goes to the fact that Jane Fonda the producer was the worst enemy of Jane Fonda the actress.
She goes from leading lady to bit player in the film's climatic scene.
And that's because she's too much of a coward to stand up for herself.
On the set of Something To Talk About, she could insist that Julia Roberts needed to assert herself in a scene that was just not coming together and you had to wonder, "Gee, where was that Jane when she floundered through one film after another as producer?"
Jane as producer is responsible for Jane the actress in Coming Home, The China Syndrome, On Golden Pond, Rollover, 9 to 5 and Old Gringo. Not one of those performances are worthy of large praise.
Some confuse endless sidelong glances and a sudden burst of outrage (On Golden Pond) with a performance. It's not.
More often, Jane delivered a washed out performance.
In Coming Home, she's married to Bruce Dern and sleeping with Jon Voight while Dern's in Vietnam. The climatic moment is after military intelligence shows Dern photos of Jane and Jon having sex. He's at their home after loading his gun and she's called Jon who arrives. The three are now together.
And what happens?
A lot for Bruce Dern and Jon Voight.
But Jane just disappears in a scene so bad it's been mocked for years. Playing statues is what some call it and note that time may not last an eternity but the scene makes clear bad acting is an eternity.
They're referring to Jane.
Sally stands like a statue -- no one stands like that. It's uncomfortable you wouldn't hold your arms like that. It's artificial, showy and fake and Sally has nothing else to do but stand there with her arms at awkward angles.
Why is Jon Voight having all the lines of reason?
Because Jane doesn't respect herself.
Bruce Dern is her husband in the film.
She's the one who should be able to reach him.
Not this stranger Jon who Bruce doesn't know except to know that this stranger has been having sex with his wife.
That's ridiculous.
It's fake.
It's complete bulls**t and it goes to the fact that scene was improvised and producer Jane won't fight for actress Jane -- or maybe any actress at all -- and she's forever claiming to be a feminist but surrendering to men.
As a hired gun, that's not how she was in her career prior to Coming Home. And her behavior on location filming A Doll's House, for example, is legendary.
But thing is, she gives a great performance in that film.
Once she starts producing she gives the same bland performance over and over.
She's the weakest thing in 9 to 5.
Yeah, Barbra Streisand may be accused of vanity when she directs herself, but she also delivers a performance.
When Jane produces herself, she disappears.
China Syndrome is a great movie. She's pretty much unimportant to the entire film and phones in a weak performance (external details like her character has a large turtle for a pet were her focus instead of characterization) that has one showy scene at the end where she comes alive trying not to cry on camera.
Did she lose her acting talent?
No.
As hired gun during the same period, she delivered some wonderful performances.
She's engaging and spirited in the comedy The Electric Horseman. She rivals the amazing work she did earlier in her career with Klute, They Shoot Horses, Don't They? and The Game Is Over when she performs in Agnes of God and especially The Morning After.
Coming Home?
Again, there are a few moments of brilliance from her in that film but she guts the character in the big final scene. She turns Sally -- and development Sally might have had -- into a joke.
Sally's husband is going to kill himself (he will go onto after that scene -- and who wouldn't escape Sally?) or he's going to kill her or he's going to kill Jon Voight because Sally called him for help.
And in this crisis, in this moment, the wife of the man with the gun has nothing to say in a scene that goes on forever and one where he's talked down by the guy who's been f**king his wife while he was overseas?
It's fake and the scene's ridiculous.
The Jane Fonda of A Doll's House would have screamed her head off and stormed off the set until (a) motivation for her character was found and (b) lines were provided for her to say.
In that scene, Jane does what the studios did to actress earlier in the 70s, turns them into decoration and puts them on the sidelines.
As a producer, Jane Fonda pretty much destroyed the actress Jane Fonda.
And it's that kind of a performance Jane would have delivered as Cindy Sheehan (and if you doubt that, check out Stanley & Iris where Jane struggles -- and fails -- at playing working class).
Jane the producer accomplished much and delivered audience friendly films. But she short changed Jane Fonda the actress in every one of them.
So, no, she couldn't have succeeded as an actress in the role of Cindy Sheehan.
At the public account, three e-mails dispute my claim that Susan Sarandon wasn't able to deliver an audience as a leading actress:
She notes Susan Sarandon was attached -- or at least mentioned -- to the film proposal in 2006 and 2007.
And that's about 10 years after Susan could deliver any real audience at the box office.
That's why Susan's doing films like Tammy (where she's not the lead) and the Lifetime film playing Marilyn Monroe's mother.
I don't mean that as an insult to Susan. We're talking realities here -- the things Cindy avoided in her post.
[. . .]
Back when studios still thought Susan could carry a film -- she couldn't, some actors can't, some very good actors can't, she starred in Safe Passage. That's more or less how she would have played Cindy and it wouldn't have worked nor would it have sold tickets.
A box office hit in the 80s on forward is $100 million in ticket sale or higher.
How many films of Susan's crossed that line?
One. Enchanted. (From the 70s, her Rocky Horror Picture Show -- which has played non-stop as cult movie -- has crossed the $100 million mark.) Enchanted really isn't her film but you can pretend that she was the calling card for audiences who saw that.
Even if you do that, you ignore the many flops: Lorezno's Oil, Light Sleeper, Sweetheart's Dance, Safe Passage, etc which all made less than $10 million. Even a 'hit' like Bull Durham only delivered $50 million in ticket sales.
When Rolling Stone threw her on the cover in the nineties most people in the industry laughed because the article insisted Susan was proving women of a certain age were bankable.
No, she wasn't and she didn't. (Susan didn't make the claim, to be clear, the writer did.) And Jane's the one who carried the ball the furthest and only Meryl Streep's matched her (in terms of being the lead in films after a certain age and delivering an audience).
A few wanted to insist that Thelma & Louise was a huge hit.
I think it's a classic film but it only made $45 million and I know the person at the studio who fought for that film and he blames the casting for the box office -- the rather weak box office when you consider all the press that film got.
Meryl Streep and Goldie Hawn wanted to play Thelma and Louise. Ridley offered his objection insisting that they were too well known and he felt they would throw the film off. The studio -- which wanted Meryl and Goldie -- then suggested Jodie Foster and Michelle Phillips and, for a brief time, Ridley acted as though he was interested in them but he wasn't. He wanted Susan and Geena Davis.
Susan's most talked about film didn't make a hundred million domestically, didn't even make fifty million.
The film's a classic. It will live a long life, it will outlive many films that were in the top 20 that year.
That's why I note some people are not box office -- it's not a crime and it doesn't make them less of an actor.
The biggest films of any year are not always the ones that get remembered.
I'm not trying to attack her but the reality is most of the films Sandra Dee starred in are forgettable and few people know who she is now. But she delivered huge box office, she sold tickets like few others before her. Or let's note that Bringing Up Baby was a bomb in its original release but it's a classic today and it's better known than many of the films Katharine Hepburn starred in that made huge money.
Susan Sarandon has real talent and casting her in the past or in the future is a smart move because it will increase the chances that your film has a life beyond theatrical and initial DVD release. Talent will deliver over the longterm.
With Geena, she carries Thelma & Louise and, with Kevin Costner, she carries Bull Durham. Both of those films are classics and some films released at the same time that were blockbusters at the box office are already forgotten.
Jillian brought up Stepmom -- but it didn't cross the $100 million mark either -- despite having Julia Roberts as a co-star when she could still deliver an audience. To me, the problem was Julia the producer and the other producers including director Chris Columbus.
Not one of them had the brains to either kill the shirtless scene or tell Ed Harris, "Shave your damn back."
Nobody wanted to see tufts of hair on his upper back. It was gross, it was disgusting. He was, in the film, the object of Julia's love and Susan was still hurting over losing her husband to Julia.
Two women vying for the man who can't get rid of those large bushes sprouting from the backs of his shoulders?
Do you think they'd let Anne Hathaway get away with showing up on the set to film a love scene with bushy armpits?
No.
And this was a 'weeper' -- a film whose primary audience is "femme" -- as Variety used to put in code back in the day (meaning women and gay men). So Ed, who is an attractive man, needed to look like solid eye candy. Instead, he looked like candy that had been dropped on the floor and gunk and fuzz got all over it.
An e-mailer offers, "The victims of Falluja probably got more attention from the snapshot than from anything else you've put up in the last 12 months."
Probably so. Saturday's Iraq snapshot name checked a wide field.
Miriam Hopkins is a name popping up repeatedly in the e-mails to the public account. Miriam was a great actress and not one that's often mentioned today.
We're moving over to the private e-mail account -- which is where community members e-mail. Calvin wonders if I've made an error in saying Jane Fonda couldn't have played Cindy Sheehan because Jane's persona onscreen is (like Susan Sarandon's) a little faster than everyone else she shares the screen with? He points out that Jane did win the Academy Award for Coming Home where she plays a politically awakened character.
Jane did win an Academy Award for that film.
There's always been an argument -- and some book entitled Alternate Oscars, I believe, makes it in print -- that the award should have gone to Jill Clayburgh (for her performance in An Unmarried Woman).
It was a weak year nomination wise.
It's not one of Jane's best performances.
But her career was in shambles due to her political stances (both speaking out and wasting all that time on Tom Hayden's career) and then she rebounded with the huge hit comedy Fun With Dick and Jane -- proving to the studios she was still bankable -- and the critical success of Julia. When she won the award in early 1979, she won it for 1978's Coming Home but also probably for 1978's Comes A Horseman (which was not a hit but had a critically praised performance by Jane) and 1978's California Suite (which was a hit and had a critically praised performance by Jane).
She played three very different characters in films released in 1978 and the most talked about film of the three was Coming Home.
But of the three performances she gave on the big screen in 1978, Coming Home was the weakest.
It remains one of her weakest to this day.
There are a few moments of brilliance to it but it's a saggy performance overall and goes to the fact that Jane Fonda the producer was the worst enemy of Jane Fonda the actress.
She goes from leading lady to bit player in the film's climatic scene.
And that's because she's too much of a coward to stand up for herself.
On the set of Something To Talk About, she could insist that Julia Roberts needed to assert herself in a scene that was just not coming together and you had to wonder, "Gee, where was that Jane when she floundered through one film after another as producer?"
Jane as producer is responsible for Jane the actress in Coming Home, The China Syndrome, On Golden Pond, Rollover, 9 to 5 and Old Gringo. Not one of those performances are worthy of large praise.
Some confuse endless sidelong glances and a sudden burst of outrage (On Golden Pond) with a performance. It's not.
More often, Jane delivered a washed out performance.
In Coming Home, she's married to Bruce Dern and sleeping with Jon Voight while Dern's in Vietnam. The climatic moment is after military intelligence shows Dern photos of Jane and Jon having sex. He's at their home after loading his gun and she's called Jon who arrives. The three are now together.
And what happens?
A lot for Bruce Dern and Jon Voight.
But Jane just disappears in a scene so bad it's been mocked for years. Playing statues is what some call it and note that time may not last an eternity but the scene makes clear bad acting is an eternity.
They're referring to Jane.
Sally stands like a statue -- no one stands like that. It's uncomfortable you wouldn't hold your arms like that. It's artificial, showy and fake and Sally has nothing else to do but stand there with her arms at awkward angles.
Why is Jon Voight having all the lines of reason?
Because Jane doesn't respect herself.
Bruce Dern is her husband in the film.
She's the one who should be able to reach him.
Not this stranger Jon who Bruce doesn't know except to know that this stranger has been having sex with his wife.
That's ridiculous.
It's fake.
It's complete bulls**t and it goes to the fact that scene was improvised and producer Jane won't fight for actress Jane -- or maybe any actress at all -- and she's forever claiming to be a feminist but surrendering to men.
As a hired gun, that's not how she was in her career prior to Coming Home. And her behavior on location filming A Doll's House, for example, is legendary.
But thing is, she gives a great performance in that film.
Once she starts producing she gives the same bland performance over and over.
She's the weakest thing in 9 to 5.
Yeah, Barbra Streisand may be accused of vanity when she directs herself, but she also delivers a performance.
When Jane produces herself, she disappears.
China Syndrome is a great movie. She's pretty much unimportant to the entire film and phones in a weak performance (external details like her character has a large turtle for a pet were her focus instead of characterization) that has one showy scene at the end where she comes alive trying not to cry on camera.
Did she lose her acting talent?
No.
As hired gun during the same period, she delivered some wonderful performances.
She's engaging and spirited in the comedy The Electric Horseman. She rivals the amazing work she did earlier in her career with Klute, They Shoot Horses, Don't They? and The Game Is Over when she performs in Agnes of God and especially The Morning After.
Coming Home?
Again, there are a few moments of brilliance from her in that film but she guts the character in the big final scene. She turns Sally -- and development Sally might have had -- into a joke.
Sally's husband is going to kill himself (he will go onto after that scene -- and who wouldn't escape Sally?) or he's going to kill her or he's going to kill Jon Voight because Sally called him for help.
And in this crisis, in this moment, the wife of the man with the gun has nothing to say in a scene that goes on forever and one where he's talked down by the guy who's been f**king his wife while he was overseas?
It's fake and the scene's ridiculous.
The Jane Fonda of A Doll's House would have screamed her head off and stormed off the set until (a) motivation for her character was found and (b) lines were provided for her to say.
In that scene, Jane does what the studios did to actress earlier in the 70s, turns them into decoration and puts them on the sidelines.
As a producer, Jane Fonda pretty much destroyed the actress Jane Fonda.
And it's that kind of a performance Jane would have delivered as Cindy Sheehan (and if you doubt that, check out Stanley & Iris where Jane struggles -- and fails -- at playing working class).
Jane the producer accomplished much and delivered audience friendly films. But she short changed Jane Fonda the actress in every one of them.
So, no, she couldn't have succeeded as an actress in the role of Cindy Sheehan.
At the public account, three e-mails dispute my claim that Susan Sarandon wasn't able to deliver an audience as a leading actress:
She notes Susan Sarandon was attached -- or at least mentioned -- to the film proposal in 2006 and 2007.
And that's about 10 years after Susan could deliver any real audience at the box office.
That's why Susan's doing films like Tammy (where she's not the lead) and the Lifetime film playing Marilyn Monroe's mother.
I don't mean that as an insult to Susan. We're talking realities here -- the things Cindy avoided in her post.
[. . .]
Back when studios still thought Susan could carry a film -- she couldn't, some actors can't, some very good actors can't, she starred in Safe Passage. That's more or less how she would have played Cindy and it wouldn't have worked nor would it have sold tickets.
A box office hit in the 80s on forward is $100 million in ticket sale or higher.
How many films of Susan's crossed that line?
One. Enchanted. (From the 70s, her Rocky Horror Picture Show -- which has played non-stop as cult movie -- has crossed the $100 million mark.) Enchanted really isn't her film but you can pretend that she was the calling card for audiences who saw that.
Even if you do that, you ignore the many flops: Lorezno's Oil, Light Sleeper, Sweetheart's Dance, Safe Passage, etc which all made less than $10 million. Even a 'hit' like Bull Durham only delivered $50 million in ticket sales.
When Rolling Stone threw her on the cover in the nineties most people in the industry laughed because the article insisted Susan was proving women of a certain age were bankable.
No, she wasn't and she didn't. (Susan didn't make the claim, to be clear, the writer did.) And Jane's the one who carried the ball the furthest and only Meryl Streep's matched her (in terms of being the lead in films after a certain age and delivering an audience).
A few wanted to insist that Thelma & Louise was a huge hit.
I think it's a classic film but it only made $45 million and I know the person at the studio who fought for that film and he blames the casting for the box office -- the rather weak box office when you consider all the press that film got.
Meryl Streep and Goldie Hawn wanted to play Thelma and Louise. Ridley offered his objection insisting that they were too well known and he felt they would throw the film off. The studio -- which wanted Meryl and Goldie -- then suggested Jodie Foster and Michelle Phillips and, for a brief time, Ridley acted as though he was interested in them but he wasn't. He wanted Susan and Geena Davis.
Susan's most talked about film didn't make a hundred million domestically, didn't even make fifty million.
The film's a classic. It will live a long life, it will outlive many films that were in the top 20 that year.
That's why I note some people are not box office -- it's not a crime and it doesn't make them less of an actor.
The biggest films of any year are not always the ones that get remembered.
I'm not trying to attack her but the reality is most of the films Sandra Dee starred in are forgettable and few people know who she is now. But she delivered huge box office, she sold tickets like few others before her. Or let's note that Bringing Up Baby was a bomb in its original release but it's a classic today and it's better known than many of the films Katharine Hepburn starred in that made huge money.
Susan Sarandon has real talent and casting her in the past or in the future is a smart move because it will increase the chances that your film has a life beyond theatrical and initial DVD release. Talent will deliver over the longterm.
With Geena, she carries Thelma & Louise and, with Kevin Costner, she carries Bull Durham. Both of those films are classics and some films released at the same time that were blockbusters at the box office are already forgotten.
Jillian brought up Stepmom -- but it didn't cross the $100 million mark either -- despite having Julia Roberts as a co-star when she could still deliver an audience. To me, the problem was Julia the producer and the other producers including director Chris Columbus.
Not one of them had the brains to either kill the shirtless scene or tell Ed Harris, "Shave your damn back."
Nobody wanted to see tufts of hair on his upper back. It was gross, it was disgusting. He was, in the film, the object of Julia's love and Susan was still hurting over losing her husband to Julia.
Two women vying for the man who can't get rid of those large bushes sprouting from the backs of his shoulders?
Do you think they'd let Anne Hathaway get away with showing up on the set to film a love scene with bushy armpits?
No.
And this was a 'weeper' -- a film whose primary audience is "femme" -- as Variety used to put in code back in the day (meaning women and gay men). So Ed, who is an attractive man, needed to look like solid eye candy. Instead, he looked like candy that had been dropped on the floor and gunk and fuzz got all over it.
That 'brave' Jill Abramson
Back when it mattered, when Jill Abramson's ass was fired by The New York Times, a lot of little whores spun for Jill.
We didn't.
We'd call her out community wide -- called her out for some time.
C.I.'d even taken a more personal approach, ensuring that she'd suffer where it really mattered (don't worry, Jill knows what we're talking about).
And, as Rebecca noted at her site, C.I. took part in the takedown of Jill at the paper.
That wasn't because we didn't like the paper's crosswords.
That was because Jill was a fake ass.
Look who's finally joined our party:
In fairness to Greg, we hadn't invited him so that might be what took him so long.
By the way, Greg, if you nudge the paper a little, you'll find out that both the reporters in Iraq and Syria have a lot of stories to tell about how Jill killed one scoop after another.
We didn't.
We'd call her out community wide -- called her out for some time.
C.I.'d even taken a more personal approach, ensuring that she'd suffer where it really mattered (don't worry, Jill knows what we're talking about).
And, as Rebecca noted at her site, C.I. took part in the takedown of Jill at the paper.
That wasn't because we didn't like the paper's crosswords.
That was because Jill was a fake ass.
Look who's finally joined our party:
Hope all the Jill Abramson fans are noting today her caving to Condi Rice--this was known but in detail today. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/16/us/politics/condoleezza-rice-testifies-on-urging-the-times-to-suppress-leak.html?_r=0 …
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In fairness to Greg, we hadn't invited him so that might be what took him so long.
By the way, Greg, if you nudge the paper a little, you'll find out that both the reporters in Iraq and Syria have a lot of stories to tell about how Jill killed one scoop after another.
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