Entertainment roundtable

Jim: It's roundtable time.   A number of readers are saying it's been way too long since we've had an entertainment roundtable so that's what we're doing now.   Our e-mail address is thethirdestatesundayreview@yahoo.com.  Participating in our roundtable are  The Third Estate Sunday Review's Dona, Ty, Jess, Ava, and me, Jim; Rebecca of Sex and Politics and Screeds and Attitude; Betty of Thomas Friedman Is a Great Man; C.I. of The Common Ills and The Third Estate Sunday Review; Kat of Kat's Korner (of The Common Ills); Cedric of Cedric's Big Mix; Mike of Mikey Likes It!; Elaine of Like Maria Said Paz); Ruth of Ruth's Report; Trina of Trina's Kitchen; Wally of The Daily Jot; Marcia of SICKOFITRDLZ; Stan of Oh Boy It Never Ends; Isaiah of The World Today Just Nuts and Ann of Ann's Mega Dub. Betty's kids did the illustration. You are reading a rush transcript.

C.I.: I'll start.  FAMILY GUY, last night.  Women are damned if they do and damned if they don't.  Taylor Swift mocked -- as she is so often by others -- for songs about men, kiss off songs.  I'm sorry -- "Under My Thumb"?  Did Mick Jagger have mockery for all of his kiss off songs where he wrote the lyrics to Keith Richards' riffs?  No.  But women are held to a different standard.  Reality, a woman shows aggression and she immediately needs to back off.  That was the argument when it was time for Tina Turner to record the follow up to PRIVATE DANCER.  Ike had already slammed her for "We Don't Need Another Hero."  She was told she was coming off "angry" and it was worse for her because you were pairing "angry" with "African-American."  So she has to walk away from anything that seems like "Better Be Good To Me" and then people are underwhelmed by the follow up and wondering why she's singing about "physical attraction" and lawyers and nonsense.  Alanis Morissette is another good example.  The hit that makes her is "You Ought To Know."  Angry young men are applauded.  Women?  Not so much.  She's mocked and made fun of.  BOY MEETS WORLD builds a whole episode around an Alanis 'type.'  She comes back with an album thanking India because, heaven forbid, a woman shows anger -- even in this world.  And she loses her audience just like Tina did before.  Taylor? Let's all dog pile on her because she's written some "Under My Thumb" songs.  Doesn't she know a woman's only allowed to do one?  This is the biggest load of nonsense.  That we're the ones who have to bring it up yet again goes to either the stupidity among the so-called pop culture critics of today or just the lazy ass nature that leads them to avoid every real issue in the hopes that someone else will address it. 


Jim: You're mad.


C.I.: I am.  This is not a new episode of FAMILY GUY.  We caught it because we had the TV on in the background -- Ava and I.  And I'm so damn tired of these attacks on women being ignored.  Taylor Swift can write any song she wants and should.  And she's smart enough not to be bullied -- even with crap from FAMILY GUY -- into moving over to 'appropriate' songs for women.


Dona: Good for her, too.  And I agree that it seems like they can focus on anything and everything except sexism.  I especially call out the so-called Social Justice Warriors who've made the time to attack Taylor as too White or whatever their nonsense is but can't defend women.


Marcia: Exactly.  They are useless, the SJWs.  I can't stand them.  As an African-American lesbian, I'm tired of their nonsense and their pretense.  They don't speak for anyone but their own self-righteousness.


Jim: Okay, a lot of people are watching the Olympics -- or are expected to.  Anyone here watching?


Wally: Nope.  I can be semi-interested in track during the summer Olymics.  I'm not interested in figure skating or skiing.


Dona: Or gymnastics.  But then with the harassment scandal, I don't believe the usual amount are interested in gymnastics.


Jim: So no one's watching?  Betty?


Betty: I ran track and played basketball -- why would you ever think I was a girly-girl?  Like Wally, if it were summer, I'd check out the track and the swimming, maybe even the diving.  But it's winter and I'm not interested. 


Rebecca: And a lot of people are not interested for political reasons -- the athletes, the American athletes, who decided you start the games not with the opening ceremony but an opening jab at some politician -- usually Trump.  That's turned off a number of people.


Mike: It's a big deal.  People are sick of it.  Can't we just have a competition, can't they just leave politics out of it?  Apparently not.  That's before you get into the cry baby of "I wanted to do the opening ceremony."  Just try to have fun and stop being a cry baby.


Cedric: Agreed.  There are too many crybabies.  Not enough sports players.  Stop the whining. 


Jim: So no one's watching the Olympics.  Okay.  What are you watching?


Ann: That's what I hate about the Olympics.  NBC airs them and we're all supposed to watch and no one wants to compete with them.  I was all excited about the SCANDAL and HOW TO GET AWY WITH MURDER cross over but instead of it airing last week, we have to wait until March because there's no one willing to put anything on the schedule.  I'm sick of this nonsense. 


Isaiah: Agreed.  And they tend to do it with the Oscars and the Emmys as well.  Don't traffic cop me.  I don't need you to tell me what to watch.


Jim: It really feels that way, doesn't it, Isaiah?  They've put up cones and some guy in a yellow vest it trying to force us to watch something.


Rebecca: In the case of SCANDAL, this is utterly stupid.  It's the final season.  We should have an episode every week with no stopping.


Ann: Agreed.


Stan: Especially with HOW TO GET AWAY WITH MURDER which, unlike SCANDAL, has been worth watching and then some.  I don't care about the winter Olympics.  It's a shame we all have to stop watching our shows so that no one competes with the Olympics. 


Trina: Well let's call it what it is, it's rigging.  It's like price rigging by hotels.  When they  have some big event, for example, they get together -- even though they're not supposed to -- and set the prices.  This is illegal.  And it should be illegal for them to do this with TV scheduling.  It's like price fixing.  Maybe with the Emmys, since it's an industry event, they can get away with it.  But this should result in a complaint to the FCC.

Jim: Okay, we've had a lot of e-mails about MeToo and about Rose  McGowan.  Where are we on that?


Jess: I support Rose.  We all support Rose.


Ava: Jess is looking at me so I'll grab.  We support Rose.  We're not fans of the MeToo movement.  As it originally existed before fall 2016, yes, we supported that.  It was a movement led by people of color.  The corporatization of it?  No, we don't support that.  We do not support Alyssa Milano.  We are so proud of Rose for calling her out.  Alyssa is CAA and CAA covered for Harvey Weinstein.  His wife is still CAA -- a fact Alyssa knows -- and like a good toady for her husband, Alyssa started talking up the client on TV.  Rose was right to call Alyssa out on that as well.  Alyssa is a fake ass.  She's either too stupid or she's a neoliberal.  Her politics are not our politics.  She's a war war and more war type.  We don't support that.  As she has taken over MeToo and corporatized it, it has become something we would never support.


Ruth: It's like those idiot starlets who follow Nicholas Kristof who thinks war will bring peace.


Ava: Exactly, Ruth. That says everything. 


Jess: The corporatization includes fake ass Meryl Streep who did know about Weinstein but who is also a fake ass because she never called Dustin out for his behavior on KRAMER VS. KRAMER until after Dustin was part of a MeToo pile on.  The book recounting their differences came out in 2015 and was heavily reported on and she didn't say anything.  Two years later, when he's being accused of inappropriate behavior she's finally whining -- and this a whine -- that she felt he was rude to her to get a reaction from her -- rude to her right before the scene.  Oh, the horror, Meryl!  Working with a method actor!  Wasn't it Joan Crawford, what did she say, tongue --


C.I.: Jack Palance, a method actor, she complained "he kisses me like I'm his wife."  Method actors can burrow deep into a part.  Shirley MacLaine nearly went crazy working with Debra Winger on TERMS OF ENDEARMENT -- and working with the director, let's not just blame Debra, Shirley's also talked about Jim Brooks abdicated to Debra.  But the end result was better performances by Debra and, yes, Shirley who won the Academy Award for that film -- and deserved it.  People have different ways of getting too their performances.  Goldie [Hawn] for example, can strike some as unfocused but the reality is that everything she's doing prior to going on the camera is her feeling out her character and the role.  Now she's not Method and no one suffers any from working with her because she's sunshine and joy.  But the point is that everyone has their own technique.  Mickey Roarke refusing to bathe during 9 AND 1/2 WEEKS?  I feel for Kim [Bassinger] but that was his process.  Debra Winger farting at Shirley, that was Debra's process.  Jane [Fonda], when she's on fire is someone who can appear completely unfocused, she's working on this and that and none of it has to do with the film.  But tell her you're ready for her and she'll ask for five minutes and then be completely ready when you call action.  Bette Midler wings in, that's her style.  She doesn't want anyone getting into deep discussions before the scene's shot about what the scene is.  She wants to do it and she comes in all energy wanting it nailed on the first take.  Some directors don't like that and I can always tell when she's had too many takes.  She's right that her first take is the best.  Bradley Cooper goes into like a Zen zone and some people can't handle that.  Some people, I won't name names, are very needy and they need you to discuss the scene with them repeatedly.  Now Barbra Streisand, is not that.  She's not needy.  But she does need to analyze the scene.  With the director, with her co-star, she needs to analyze it.  A lot of it is just her talking it through -- what's going on her head and she's vocalizing it and she'll come to her own conclusion about what she needs to do if she gets to talk it through -- she's trying to figure out what works and, most importantly, what is it that's wrong.  She'll figure it out.  But there are needy people who need constant reassurance or constant drama and can't perform without it. And there are those who pretend to be needy because they're trying to blow your concentration so they can steal the scene.  There are all kinds of things that take place.  Meryl's little problem was not the end of the world and the reality is that someone like Meryl needs what Dustin did to get out of her own head -- she's too internal.  She'll be quickly forgotten because she's nothing but the Paul Muni of this century. 


Jim: Woah!  [Laughing.]  I love it when C.I. talks in the roundtables.  So do our readers.


Ava: Well she's right.  Meryl is too internal.  She's never come alive onscreen to this day.  She hated working with Robert Redford because he's also internal.  Like Richard Gere, Robert needs a strong performer opposite him to draw him out.  Meryl is a wind up doll, she provides hollow performances.  Look at DEATH BECOMES HER and notice how not only Goldie Hawn steals every scene but so does Bruce Willis.  And Bruce isn't really known for deep acting.  I don't mean that in a tacky way.  I do mean that he's more of a movie star than an actor and he steals his scenes with her and seems real while she's a cardboard cut-out throughout.


Elaine: JULIA AND HER CARDBOARD LOVER, she should remake that.  As the cardboard lover.  She really is the worst.  Take SILKWOOD, you're haunted by Cher and Cher's playing the supporting role.  When she disappears, the film falls flat.  Cher's a great actress, look at TEA WITH MUSSULINI.  She breathes onscreen.  Like Pauline Kael, I never have bought any performance by Meryl as real or human.


Stan: I'm sick of her so I have to weigh in.  THE POST was an insult.  It pretended to be important.  Daniel Ellsberg is a movie.  THE POST is a dull film filled with moments that did not happen.  Fakery and bad acting abound.  It was an ugly and fake film.  And they knew it and still acted like they were doing something important. 


Trina: They were glorifying Katharine Graham who busted unions. And they wanted credit for that.  That's the definition of limousine liberal.  They are that out of touch and should all be ashamed.


Jim: Agreed.  Okay, Melissa asks if we could do a cover album what would we do -- who would we cover and you can't repeat someone's answer.  Mike?


Mike: I would have loved time to think on this.  Hmmm.  Prince.  I feel forced.  I'll say Prince. 


Rebecca: Damn you!


Mike: Especially "Forever In My Life."


Rebecca: Damn it.  I'm going next.  Okay, Prince is taken.  I'd do Smokey Robinson. 


Jim: Elaine?


Elaine: Carly Simon.  I'd cover her songs.


Trina: Let me grab Joni then before someone else does.  I'd do an album of Joni Mitchell songs.


Cedric:  Janet.  I'll grab Janet Jackson.  I'd do a Janet tribute album.


Betty: Okay, now I'm about to start cursing, Cedric.


Isaiah: Me too.


Betty: Okay, give me Erykah Badu before someone grabs her. 


Isaiah: I need to think.  I need to think.


Jess: Let me do Melanie.  An album of Melanie with an emphasis on covering "Peace Will Come (According to Plan)."


Ty: Wow.  Great choices.  Do I go old school?  No.  I'll go with Usher, I'd do a tribute to Usher.


Dona: I'm jumping in because I have my choice.  Huge Heart fan.  I'd do a tribute album to Ann and Nancy Wilson which would, of course mean, including their friend and sometimes songwriting partner Sue Ennis.


Ava: As Dona's former roommate, I can verify that she is a Heart-aholic.  I love Heart too.  I think -- I think Tracy Chapman.  "Bang Bang," "Telling Stories," "Our Bright Future," "Crossroads," there's so much there to note and not just her first album.


Marcia: Oh, that's a good one. 


Isaiah: Stevie Wonder!  Can't believe I'm only now thinking of it.  Stevie Wonder.


Ruth: Vanilla Fudge or something -- Jimi.  Jimi Hendrix.  Yes, I'd do a tribute album to Jimi.  And not just ballads, some rip roaring covers of songs like "Room Full Of Mirrors."


Jim: Ruth's kicking it old school!


Ruth: I am.


Jim: Kat, I can't believe you haven't spoken up.


Kat: I know.  Everyone's grabbing someone great.  Okay, I guess I'd chill and do an album of Sade songs.


Ann: Let me jump in.  I'd do Holly Knight.  She's written a lot of great songs -- written and co-written -- Tina Turner's "Better Be Good To Me" and "One of the Living" and "The Best," Pat Benatar's "Love Is A Battlefield" and "Invincible," Heart's "Never" and "There's The Girl," Scandal's "The Warrior" -- in fact, that there might be enough just for one album.


Wally:  And don't forget Rod Stewart's "Love Touch."  Hmm.  I'll go with Rod Stewart.   I love "You Wear It Well." I love so much of his songs including "Young Turks."  So Rod.  Who would you do, Jim?


Jim: I think I'd do the Mamas & the Papas, just a cover album of their songs especially including "Safe In My Garden," "Snow Queen of Texas" and "Got A Feeling."


Marcia: Okay, Aretha!  Before anyone else grabs her.  A tribute album to Aretha, the Queen of Soul.


Jim: C.I., I think you're the only one who hasn't answered.




C.I.: I'd go with the one and only Stevie Nicks.


Betty: Forgot all about her.


Kat: Me too!


Jim: Okay that's going to wrap up our entertainment roundtable.  Again, rush transcript.