Ty: Last week saw more US soldiers die in Iraq. Since June 6th, how many have died?
C.I.: It's now 9. June 6th as an attack in which 5 died that day and yesterday came the news that a sixth had died from that attack on Thursday. The six are: Spc Marcos A. Cintron, Spc Emilio J. Campo Jr., Spc Michael B. Cook Jr., Spc Christopher B. Fishbeck, Spc Robert P. Hartwick and Pfc Michael C. Olivieri. That's 6. In addition, Pfc Matthew J. England, Staff Sgt Nicholas P. Bellard and Sgt Glenn M. Sewell were also killed while serving in Iraq.
Ty: And C.I.'s rightly been critical -- and C.I. and Ava have been critical here -- about the lack of press coverge of the deaths. But last week, C.I. noticed another failure. I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on that?
Wally: You're talking about when she called out Illinois' Senator Dick Durbin and Governor Pat Quinn for refusing to issue a statement on the passing of Michael Olivieri, who went by "Mikey," by the way? I agree with her, that was disgusting. Contrast that with Minnesota where you had US Senator Al Franken, the state's governor and a member of Congress attended Emilio Campo's Friday funeral.
Kat: I agree that it's disgusting. Olivieri -- and Elaine noted this early on -- was largely ignored. If it weren't for regional media, his passing would have garnered little attention and that's not fair.
Ava: And, just for the record, Minnesota's governor is Mark Dayton. He attended the funeral of Emilio Campo, as did Al Franken, as Wally noted, and the third official was US House Rep. Tim Walz. They made time for it. Durbin and Quinn couldn't even issue a statement. That's pathetic. They didn't think it was important.
Dona: US soldiers in Iraq really have fallen off the radar and, in looking for a photo for this piece at the USF military site, I was surprised to discover that all thirteen photos they are promoting -- the US military is promoting -- are of Iraqi soldiers. It seems a bit strange to go through a 13 photo slideshow on the main page of a US military site and not find one photo that features US soldiers. Iraq came up in one of the hearings you all attended this week, C.I. reported on it in this "Iraq snapshot," the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense hearing that Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Adm Mike Mullen, Chair of the Joint-Chiefs of Staff, appeared at. It was combative, C.I. reported and I streamed it and saw that it was indeed. Kat, what happened between Gates and Senator Patrick Leahy?
Kat: Okay, conjecture on my part here. It was a fairly smooth hearing up until that point and Leahy wasn't being controversial. So the only thing I could see that ticked Gates off was that Leahy did several statements, before he got to questions, praising Mullen and Mullen's wife with whom Leahy and his wife socialize. Maybe that ticked Gates off, I have no idea.
Dona: Let me introduce that exchange. I'm using C.I.'s transcript in the snapshot.
Ava: And we have a problem.
Dona: What?
Ava: C.I. and I are taking on Diane Sawyer's crappy 'reporting' on World News Tonight. I didn't catch it until you read that in Dona but, correct me if I'm wrong, C.I., Diane Sawyer presented part of that exchange but edited it. I don't mean she went with two lines. I mean she took Leahy's remark and then the screen went to Gates and it wasn't where Gates' statement started. Now they can edit, that's fine. But if they're editing, they need to note it. Instead, World News Tonight, altered the exchange and did so without noting that and while making it appear that what they presented was as happened. Big no-no.
C.I.: Ava's right but we've worked two hours on that piece and I'm thinking that Ava's comments here can stand for it, what do you think?
Ava: I'm fine with it, if you are. I just want to be done with this edition.
Dona: I really don't understand how ABC World News gets away with all that it does. When I was doing grad school, that was a big issue. It seriously alters facts and it comes under so little scrutiny for that. Alright, Kat, that was the exchange. What was it like sitting through that?
Kat: Very weird. Gates was being openly hostile and there was just this tension in the room. Now Leahy's exchange continues beyond that portion. And Gates will get nastier until he finally insists that they're not trying for a "Vermont style democracy" in Afghanistan and he says it so snidely and Leahy -- who is one of Vermont's two US senators, rightly takes offense.
Dona: And at that point what happened?
Wally: We're behind the witnesses. We can see the senators but we see the back of the witnesses' heads. So normally, we wouldn't have caught this. But Gates makes a point to turn to the right, so we see his face in profile, as he makes this rude face and rolls his eyes. He had gone on NPR trashing Congress not all that long ago and I'd argue he made it obvious last week that one of the members of Congress he dislikes the most is Senator Patrick Leahy. So while Gates is making that face, Adm Mullen steps in and starts speaking and, basically, acting like Gates little tantrum never took place.
Ty: And that's something that you've all noted in past Congressional reporting that happens regularly. I think that first stood out when you were reporting on the Don't Ask, Don't Tell hearings and you were noting Gates was not Mullen. They were both getting credit for things and Mullen was the one speaking in a manner worth praising. Mullen seems to repeatedly be put in the position of cleaning up after Gates.
Ava: That's exactly right. Gates has been praised non-stop on this never ending farewell tour but he's a nasty piece of work.
Ty: Part of the farewell tour was the Pentagon briefing last week, the one Gates called his last briefing. It took place Thursday and C.I. reported on it in that day's snapshot. Now you had a friend sneak you in. Were there any pre-conditions?
C.I.: No. But after the moment you're going to ask about happened, I was told that if I mentioned this at The Common Ills and reported on specific reporters by name disgracing themselves, my friend was worried he would suffer fallout.
Ty: Which is why you took it to a community newsletter to get specific. But at the end of the press conference, Gates, Mullen and another man left the stage. After they walked off a Pentagon spokesperson stepped forward and declared what?
C.I.: "I want everybody to sit tight. Let's kill the cameras. He'll come back out in one moment and we'll say goodbye individually and so forth with photos for you guys. This is off the record."
Ty: And what was the general reaction among the press to that?
C.I.: I would phrase it as "Oh, goody!" Meaning there was joy and excitement.
Ty: Did anyone raise the point that what was about to take place was unethical? You're not supposed to be engaged in conduct with the subjects you report on unless it is conduct you can share. Clearly when "off the record" enters into it, something's being hidden from the public.
C.I.: My friend was smiling and then sensed my shock. That's when he immediately began insisting that I couldn't name names at The Common Ills.
Ty: Without naming names, characterize the love-fest.
C.I.: Well, first off, three people immediately left. I'd love to give them credit for having the good sense to leave but if I can't name names, I can't name names. Those that remained? I saw a lot of hugging. I saw a lot of we-will-miss-you and gushing over how Gates did his job -- what they were reporting on objectively -- supposedly objectively -- remember? I saw them embarrass themselves in the worst way possible. It was disgusting.
Dona: Okay, let's go back to the hearing with Gates. Iraq was barely mentioned. VA issues were raised by Senator Patty Murray who issued a press release that we'll insert in here.
(Washington, D.C.) -- Today, U.S. Senator Patty Murray (D-WA) asked Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, tough questions regarding some of the all too often overlooked human costs of the ongoing war in Afghanistan during a hearing on the Fiscal Year 2012 budget request for the Department of Defense (DoD). Senator Murray also asked how these long-term costs are being factored into the decision to drawdown forces in Afghanistan. During the exchange Senator Murray expressed her strong belief that these costs of war, including the rising rate of suicide among veterans, the lack of access to much needed mental health care, and the increased number of tours of current service members, must be taken seriously by the Pentagon and the White House, particularly in decisions to bring troops home.
"Many of these service members have sacrificed life and limb in Afghanistan and we as a country are going to be taking care of them and their families not just today, not just when they return home, but for a lifetime," Senator Murray said today.
Excerpts from the exchange and the full text of Senator Murray's questions below.
Secretary Gates, last Friday I visited the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda and had an opportunity to talk to a number of our wounded warriors, their dedicated providers, and their caregivers.
As you know well, many of these service members have sacrificed life and limb in Afghanistan and we as a country are going to be taking care of them and their families not just today, not just when they return home, but for a lifetime.
As Chairman of the Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee, I take this issue very seriously and I've been trying to draw attention to this all too often unseen human cost of the war in thinking about how we should consider that as part of our decision in any long-term conflict.
I think you know, the major components of this long-term war include the fact that deaths from suicide among veterans and service members from this war are on par with combat deaths, many of our warriors are facing difficult challenges accessing needed mental health care when they return home, And that many of the service members serving in Afghanistan today are on their third, fourth, or even fifth tours.
So, while we have talked a great deal about costs in terms of rebuilding projects, Afghan aid, and military resources -- I wanted to ask you today what you -- and the Pentagon -- consider to be the biggest costs of this war to our wounded warriors and their families -- particularly those costs that we will be paying for for a very long time and whether that is ever considered or factored in when you're making decisions about drawing down in Afghanistan?
Excerpts from Sec. Gates' response:
"I cannot say that decisions in terms of drawdowns or military strategy are made bearing in mind the costs of the soldiers, and the sailors, and the marines who suffer, it is on the minds of everybody who makes those decisions, but by the same token, it is the nature of war and it is frankly one of the reasons why, as I told an interviewer a couple of weeks ago, I feel I have become more conservative, more cautious, about when you use force because I've seen the consequences up front," said Sec. Gates.
"The costs are exactly as you described, in lives that are shattered, in bodies that are shattered, and in minds that are shattered," said Sec. Gates. "So from our part, in addition to the VA, we have tried to make sure that these funds for these programs have been protected and will be protected in the future."
Excerpts from Adm. Mullen's response:
"Senator, first of all, I appreciate your leadership on this because it has to have a voice. I actually believe we are just beginning to understand this," said Adm. Mullen in response to Sen. Murray's questions. "Leaders have to continue to focus on 'what are these costs' and I thought you said it very well, it is to repay this debt for the rest of their lives and we need to stay with them so that we understand what that means."
"There are time bombs set up that we know are out there, we just don't know when they're going to go off," Adm. Mullen continued. "The relationship that the Pentagon has with the VA and with communities throughout the country has got to get stronger."
"These costs are longstanding, we don't understand them as well as we should… not just for our members, but also for our families, we see that time and time again. Our families have become almost as much a part of our readiness as anything else and it wasn't that way 10 or 15 years ago. Without them we would be nowhere in these wars," said Adm. Mullen.
"Many of these service members have sacrificed life and limb in Afghanistan and we as a country are going to be taking care of them and their families not just today, not just when they return home, but for a lifetime," Senator Murray said today.
Excerpts from the exchange and the full text of Senator Murray's questions below.
Secretary Gates, last Friday I visited the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda and had an opportunity to talk to a number of our wounded warriors, their dedicated providers, and their caregivers.
As you know well, many of these service members have sacrificed life and limb in Afghanistan and we as a country are going to be taking care of them and their families not just today, not just when they return home, but for a lifetime.
As Chairman of the Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee, I take this issue very seriously and I've been trying to draw attention to this all too often unseen human cost of the war in thinking about how we should consider that as part of our decision in any long-term conflict.
I think you know, the major components of this long-term war include the fact that deaths from suicide among veterans and service members from this war are on par with combat deaths, many of our warriors are facing difficult challenges accessing needed mental health care when they return home, And that many of the service members serving in Afghanistan today are on their third, fourth, or even fifth tours.
So, while we have talked a great deal about costs in terms of rebuilding projects, Afghan aid, and military resources -- I wanted to ask you today what you -- and the Pentagon -- consider to be the biggest costs of this war to our wounded warriors and their families -- particularly those costs that we will be paying for for a very long time and whether that is ever considered or factored in when you're making decisions about drawing down in Afghanistan?
Excerpts from Sec. Gates' response:
"I cannot say that decisions in terms of drawdowns or military strategy are made bearing in mind the costs of the soldiers, and the sailors, and the marines who suffer, it is on the minds of everybody who makes those decisions, but by the same token, it is the nature of war and it is frankly one of the reasons why, as I told an interviewer a couple of weeks ago, I feel I have become more conservative, more cautious, about when you use force because I've seen the consequences up front," said Sec. Gates.
"The costs are exactly as you described, in lives that are shattered, in bodies that are shattered, and in minds that are shattered," said Sec. Gates. "So from our part, in addition to the VA, we have tried to make sure that these funds for these programs have been protected and will be protected in the future."
Excerpts from Adm. Mullen's response:
"Senator, first of all, I appreciate your leadership on this because it has to have a voice. I actually believe we are just beginning to understand this," said Adm. Mullen in response to Sen. Murray's questions. "Leaders have to continue to focus on 'what are these costs' and I thought you said it very well, it is to repay this debt for the rest of their lives and we need to stay with them so that we understand what that means."
"There are time bombs set up that we know are out there, we just don't know when they're going to go off," Adm. Mullen continued. "The relationship that the Pentagon has with the VA and with communities throughout the country has got to get stronger."
"These costs are longstanding, we don't understand them as well as we should… not just for our members, but also for our families, we see that time and time again. Our families have become almost as much a part of our readiness as anything else and it wasn't that way 10 or 15 years ago. Without them we would be nowhere in these wars," said Adm. Mullen.
Dona (Con't): So that's Senator Murray's statement. She Chairs the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee. The House Veterans Affairs Committee held hearings last week. The four of you reported on the House Veterans Affairs Subcommittee on Health hearing in "Iraq snapshot," "A failure of VA leadership (Ava)," "Who's crunching the numbers at VA? (Wally)" and "What is sexual assault?" and, Ava, I'm going to start with you because the topic was about something you'd reported on two weeks ago ["Sexual assaults at the VA (Ava)"].
Ava: Right. So the Government Accountability Office released a report which found around 300 sexual assault cases were never reported up the system to the Inspector General's office.
Dona: And Wally, characterize the questioning.
Wally: I'd say the Subcommittee -- plus Committee Chair Jeff Miller who took part in the hearing even though he's not on the Committee -- started out concerned and quickly grew . . . I'll go with "edgy" but I think "angry" would work here as well.
Dona: And that was because?
Wally: The VA refused to provide answers. On the most basic things they couldn't provide answers. They knew they were being summoned to testify and they knew what they were being asked to testify about. But they showed up either unable or unwilling to answer questions.
Dona: I want to include one exchange, I'm pulling from C.I.'s snapshot and William Schoenard is a VA official:
US House Rep Jeff Miller: The [GAO] report covers '07 to July of 2010. Can you tell me what the statistics are from July of 2010 to today of sexual assaults that have been reported within the system?
William Schoenhard: Uh, sir, we do not have that information available here today but we will provide that to you.
US House Rep Jeff Miller: Would it have been a reasonable expectation that somebody might be asking that question?
William Schoenhard: Uh. We. Uh. Had not anticipated that question but we do have the information. We can provide that to you in short order, sir.
US House Rep Jeff Miller: If you would, for the record, so that we can make sure that all members have the answer to that question. When can we expect it?
William Schoenhard: Uh. We would provide that, sir, within three weeks.
US House Rep Jeff Miller: Three weeks?
William Schoenhard: Yes, sir. I want to make sure that we have all the information together in a complete way. We will try to provide it sooner.
US House Rep Jeff Miller: I hope that you have all the information together and that it won't take you three weeks.
Dona (Con't): Would it have been a reasonable expectation? Yeah, Wally, I can hear "edgy" in that and "angry" as well. Kat, your thoughts on what's going on with the VA?
Kat: Well, my opinion, we were discussing this with some veterans groups this week and my opinion is that one of the big errors of the Barack administration, when history looks back, is going to be the VA. Yeah, the economy'll be in there and the Justice Dept, etc. But the VA, people really aren't paying attention to it. They're just out of control. I keep waiting for Congress to call Eric Shinseki in to testify because everyone else is stonewalling. This isn't a new development. When we attend a Senate Veterans Affairs Comittee hearing, I write about it at my site and usually focus on Senator Richard Burr because he usually makes me laugh. He's got a dry sense of humor. And because he's usually got a few points worth repeating -- he's a Republican, I'm a Democrat but he does have some strong point on the VA. So he's probably my favorite on the Committee. No "probably," he is. So I cover him and since 2010, he has been calling out the VA witnesses on their refusal to provide answers in open hearings.
Ty: And explain why that matters, explain why it means less if they provide it in a paper they dash over after the hearing is finished.
Kat: The press is gone. Some will try to follow up. But most are already headed to another hearing or another story that their outlet's assigned them to. If you're not answering in the hearing, you're not going to be in the next day's paper or on the evening news. VA knows that and they deliberately refuse to answer questions. My opinion.
Ty: There was so much more that we wanted to get to but we are on a time constraint. While we're doing this, for example, pieces are being published. That's how limited our time is. In Friday's "Iraq snapshot," C.I. covered a House Veterans Affairs Committee hearing on mental health and, if there are no objections, I just want to go out on some of Iraq War veteran Daniel Hanson's testimony.
Daniel Hanson: So I joined the Marine Corps in 2003. Shortly after I was deployed to Ramadi Iraq in 2004. And it was a deployment that started with one of our Marines shooting himself in the head -- just kind of brushed that under the table. And then 34 marines we lost -- throughout the deployment. We had about 400, 450 Marines injured. Came back and, uh, went on leave and that was -- that was that. Started drinking pretty heavy, dealing with nightmares, dealing with things I wasn't really prepared to deal with, I would say. And I think one of the biggest reasons that I dealt with it myself was just because -- I mean, I was in a battalion with a thousand Marines, I don't think people wanted to hear, you know, my whining and complaining. So -- Then shortly after we went on antoher deployment, non-combat which, uhm, uh, just kept on drinking, kept masking my issues with whatever -- whatever would take away any of the pain. Came back and then about six months later my unit was deployed again to Iraq. This time I was in the remain-behind-element so I was kind of able to see the other side of things -- when we would get the casualty reports, we would get the KIAs in and have to notifiy and take beyond that end of things as well. I decided that I was going to get out of the Marine Corps and uh -- But I was persuaded by a good friend, Sgt Major JJ Ellis, to stay in but, on that deployment, he ended up getting killed. I went to his funeral over in Arlington National Cemetery. Then after that, a friend, also in 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines, Jonathan Schulze, hanged himself in the basement of his home and that kind of got me twirling out of control just before I was going to get out of the Marine Corps. And then finally on March -- I got discharged in February, 2007. And then on March 23, 2007, my brother -- who is also in the Marine Corps -- he hung himself in the basement of his home. And at that point, I think I decided I was going to do everything I could to avoid pain, that I was going to do everything to deal with it myself as I had been doing for the last three or four years. And I got into drugs, I got into alcohol. I got into whatever it was that would mask the pain that day. Eventually, I tried to kill myself. I ended up in the St. Cloud VA Medical Center for about 48 hours in lock-up. And then I was released and off to do whatever it is that I wanted to do -- which was go back to work because that seemed like the normal thing to do after -- after something like that. And eventually I found myself in and out of jail. I'm not -- And I was getting treated on an outpatient basis for awhile at the VA Medical Center. But when you were as messed up as I was, it takes a lot more than, you know, one or two sessions a week to get through my issues. And so I eventually found my way into the dual diagnosis program to get help. It was mostly to avoid a longer stint in jail for my DUIs. Eventually, I got out after about 30 days. I think I started drinking the next day. About a year later I found myself in jail for, I don't know, the sixth or seventh time and I decided for myself that I was done hurting myself, I was done hurting my family, I was done hurting my children. And I checked into a 13 to 15 month faith-based program that was what changed my life. About a week after jail, I stopped going to work, stopped going to school and I decided that I wasn't going to be very productive unless I got help. And that's what I did at Minneapolis Teen Challenge. It was more of a holistic approach. It was -- I went to the VA once a week to get help in the combat and the military specific issues and then I would stay there, you know, seven days a week. I wasn't able to get any funding through the VA because it was not -- it was not a VA funded program. Therefore, I got backed up on bills, I wasn't able to pay things and eventually filed bankruptcy. So in my dealing with the VA Medical Center, I always felt like I was in control, I was running my own rehabilitation althought I couldn't even, you know, put my shoes and socks on correctly most days. I felt like it was "Whatever I wanted to do Mr. Hanson, whatever I wanted to do that I thought was best for me. Well I thought what was best for me to go and get drunk and get high and forget about all my troubles and forget about all my nightmares.
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6-20-2011, Ty Note. Typo of date has been fixed. Otherwise, this is a rush transcript. Enjoy.
