Dona: Normally, when we gather for hearings, we call this "Congress and Veterans." When we have non-veteran hearings, we still have enough of a focus on the veterans hearings that I'm fine with the title. We're calling this "Report on Congress" because I think we'll end up more on the Benghazi hearing last week by the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee than we do on the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee. That's fine. And VA Secretary Eric Shinseki should see that as a gift since the last times we gathered have repeatedly focused on the department he supervises. Last Thursday, there was a Senate Veterans Affairs Committee hearing and C.I. reported on it in the May 9th "Iraq snapshot," Ava reported on it with "Complimentary medicine (Ava)" and Kat reported on it with "VA screws over Camp Lejeune victims." Wednesday the House Oversight Committee held a hearing on Benghazi. C.I. reported on it in the May 8th "Iraq snapshot," and the May 10th snapshot, Ava reported on it with the "Crazies on the Committee (Ava)," Kat with "If today were a movie . . .," Wally with "Biggest Coward at today's Committee hearing" and Ruth with "An order to stand down." Kat, can I get you to do a set-up for Wednesday's hearing? Just the basics of who was there and the topic, barebones.
Kat: Sure. September 11, 2001, the US was attacked. Eleven years later, September 11, 2012, a US mission in Benghazi, Libya was attacked. The attack left dozens of Americans injured and left four Americans dead: Glen Doherty, Sean Smith, Ambassador Chris Stevens and Tyrone Woods. Why they died is a question that remains out there. No one at the State Dept has suffered any punishment and the ones who carried out the attacks have not been brought to justice. The Committee Chair is Darrell Issa, Ranking Member is Elijah Cummings. The witnesses appearing before the Committee on Wednesday were the State Dept's Mark Thompson, title Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary for Counterterrorism, Gregory Hicks, title Foreign Service Officer and Eric Nordstrom, title Diplomatic Security Officer. The focus of the hearing was the attack and the responses.
C.I.: Can I just add Ruth's "Bob Somerby floats in his own toilet"? I think that needs to be included in terms of reporting on the hearing.
Dona: I have no problem with that. Ruth, can you set it up for us and we'll move there first?
Ruth: In that post, I was writing about how Bob Somerby did not attend the hearings, did not know what was said and was again lecturing the world about how he interprets U.S. Ambassador Susan Rice's ridiculous remarks on the Sunday shows in September where she 'explained' Benghazi for the American people. I said he did not know what he was talking about and how typical that he whines that Rice is not being given enough space, months after, in the coverage today. I am not sure what C.I. is getting at but that hearing lasted over four and a half hours. I am not counting breaks, like there was a ten to fifteen minute break. But the hearing was very lengthy.
Dona: C.I.?
C.I.: That hearing was a monster. A number of us had pointed out that Glenn Kessler, Washington Post, was called "The Fact Checker" in the hearing. Democrats on the Committee repeatedly cited his work, never using his name, and cited him as an expert. They used him as an expert to clobber Chair Darrell Issa. And I want to toss to Wally.
Wally: Sure. Elijah Cummings, Carolyn Maloney and John Tierney were the ones we mainly focused on with that. Now not only did they cite Kessler's work without ever naming him, they distorted his work. Tierney did so the worst. He lied that Issa was called "The Whopper." No. Kessler wrote "the language qualifies as a whopper." I will argue right now that Tierney lied intentionally. And I've reviewed C.I.'s notes of the hearing. Tiereny starts out using "a whopper" and quickly begins saying "The Whopper" and using the term to refer to Issa. He deliberately misled. That was one outright lie. The other lie from the three was setting Kessler up as the expert on who lies and who doesn't and then rushing from Kessler's fact check of Issa immediately to Susan Rice and how they feels she was treated poorly. They never once noted that Kessler had fact checked Rice and found her Sunday presentations back in September to be dishonest -- 2 Pinocchios. If Glenn Kessler -- and, yes, he has a name -- is an expert to be praised the way the three did then they need to note what he said about Susan Rice.
Dona: Okay. That's fine and certainly Susan Rice going on five different networks one Sunday to mislead the American people is dishonest. And she did mislead -- did so knowingly we can make that assertion now because the timeline of the e-mails and her participation in them -- the ones that came out Friday -- demonstrate she was in the loop as changes were made, so she was aware of the earlier assertions that the State Department be dropped. She lied, she's a liar. I have no problem with that. Now let's move on --
C.I.: Sorry. We're not moving on. Susan Rice isn't my obsession. I mentioned her in my coverage only in terms of what Wally was speaking of, Glenn Kessler. I have other concerns and it was a big hearing. But now that Somerby's again wasting everyone's time, let's address Susan Rice because I don't believe the press coverage did. For example, those lies that there was a protest, a YouTube video sparked and all the rest of the garbage? It did, according to Gregory Hicks, "immeasurable damage." US House Rep Trey Gowdy raised this issue later in the hearing. He wanted Hicks to be clear. Hicks was saying that Rice's media appearances hurt and prevented the FBI from getting to Benghazi in a timely manner and Hicks responded, "That is my belief." Further, he declared:
The FBI team was delayed, the Libyan government could not secure the compound, it was visited by numerous people one of the items that was taken form the compound was Chris' diary which through the extraordinary efforts of David McFarland we were able to retrieve and return back to the Department There were other documents that were published that another journalist managed to acquire while visiting the compound so it made achieving the objective of getting the FBI to Benghazi very, very difficult. The ability of them to achieve their mission more difficult.
C.I. (Con't): I don't know how much more clear a person can be. What happened? The Prime Minister of Libya declared that it was a terrorist attack, no protests. Then Rice goes on TV five times and says otherwise. The prime minister felt disrespected. He made that clear. He continued to make that clear. Weeks and weeks later, when he visited the US, he was at the UN, he made it clear that he was still offended. This offense resulted in delays. This offense, according to Hicks, resulted in the prime minister being offended and that resulted in the FBI not being given permission for several days to visit the crime scene in Benghazi. So let's drop this idea that Susan Rice's remarks were inconsequential. They were an attempt to mislead the American people. As Dona notes, we now know Rice was being cc-ed in the e-mails during the discussion of the creation of the talking points, so she was aware what was being removed. She went on TV lying and there's no excuse for that. Following orders doesn't excuse that. You don't lie to the American people. I can't believe Bob Somerby bored the world yet again with another 'poor Susan Rice' post. I was fine with moving to other topics, there were many other topics in the hearing. But Somerby wasn't at the hearing and continues to make it all about Susan Rice. Well in the hearing we heard that the lies she told personally insulted the leader of another country, Prime Minister Ali Zeidan.
Dona: Okay, thank you. I read all the coverage I could on this after I read the reports that you all did because I knew we were going to have address Benghazi here. I never once read anything talking about Susan Rice's presentation impacting or pissing off the Libyan prime minister. And, honestly, that's why we do these pieces here. To review the hearings, for our readers to hear from people at the hearings about what happened. As Ruth pointed out, it was a long hearing, so with this one especially there is probably too much for any outlet to have covered all aspects of. We keep talking about the hearing and also bringing in the e-mails. Wally, you wanted to talk about the e-mails so let's grab that real quick. Friday morning, ABC News' Jonathan Karl reported on the e-mails, on how the State Department via Victoria Nuland requested changes in the talking points that the intelligence community created. Nuland wanted --and got -- deletions because she felt otherwise Congress -- and the American people -- were being provided with information that could be used against the State Dept. Wally, I'm not sure that sets you up for what you wanted to note about the e-mails but there you go.
Wally: No, that's fine. I want to make two brief observations. The media is being very scared here. I'm not talking about what they're noting from the e-mails. I'm talking about defensive about the e-mails. I'm referring to the crackdown on whistle-blowers that has taken place in this administration -- Bradley Manning being just the most famous example -- and the chilling effect that this attack and the attack by the US government on WikiLeaks is having on the media. Looking at the reports that emerged on Friday, I read -- and maybe it's just me -- a subtext of fear. No one wants the government coming after it the way it has gone after WikiLeaks. Second, I'm quoting, "Nothing would thrill me more than to release this e-mail and it's not classified, we all had access to it, all you had to do was go downstairs to the basement and look through it So I hope my colleagues on the other side of the aisle will be as full throated in calling for the State Department to release this evidence as they are when they're unhappy with us." That was Gowdy in the hearing.
Dona: Jumping in. I see what Wally's saying. Let me note that on Saturday, the White House attempted a spin that quickly petered out but it was in the news cycle briefly where they were dismissing the hearing and the e-mails by saying Republicans had the e-mails since February. As if that means that May's questions are nullified.
Wally: Right. Thank you. They have had the e-mails. And they have repeatedly called for them to be released. There's a major e-mail that hasn't been leaked yet. But this was a topic of the hearing itself, how the e-mails needed to be released. When Jason Chaffetz declared that all the documents should be released and that it was wrong "to deny the public or the media these documents." When he said that, Elijah Cummings interrupted him to say, "I agree." The e-mails were leaked to the press, presumably by a Republican House member or staffer. But they never should have been kept from the press or the public to begin with. They are not classified. For the White House to spin on Saturday that it didn't matter because the e-mails had been in possession of the Congress since February and only now was it an issue, the White House has repeatedly refused to make them public. The Committee addressed that. Elijah Cummings is the ranking member so he spoke on behalf of the Democrats and he agreed on Wednesday that it needed to be released.
Dona: Alright. Good points. Kat, you all got together to see if you could make a list of Democrats on the Committee who didn't embarrass themselves Wednesday. You came up with a list -- a short one -- but a list. Tell me who they were.
Kat: First off US House Rep Robin Kelly. We all agreed on her but no one knew her name. We'd never seen her before. C.I. called a friend on the Committee to find out who she was. She is the woman who just won the special election last month to fill Jesse Jackson Jr.'s seat after he retired due to his criminal problems. Robin Kelly is new to the Committee but we wanted to point out that she did a great job using her time. She was respectful to all. We applaud her. We also applaud US House Rep Tammy Duckworth who was just amazing. And, lastly, US House Rep Stephen Lynch. They were the top three. There were other contenders but in the end, as we discussed them, they tended to flame out.
Dona: Ava and C.I. both noted in their day-of reporting that US House Rep Carolyn Maloney was strange at the hearing, so strange that a woman in front of them could be heard asking of Maloney, "Is she drunk?" Kat, what were the Democrats biggest crimes here, what were they doing wrong?
Kat: You had three whistle-blowers before you. So if you used your time, as US House Rep Steve Horsford did, not to ask a question but instead to read from a prepared speech in front of you, we think you wasted everyone's time. Let me be clear, my butt was aching. It was not comfortable sitting in a chair all those hours. I'm used to two and two and a half hour hearings. This was double that. So if you took up time in the hearing and you weren't asking questions, you were wasting everyone's time and you were the pain in my ass. Maloney was rude to the witnesses, never acknowledged the families of the four fallen -- and families members of the fallen were attending the hearing. She was awful, she was combative. She wasn't interested in the facts or in finding more facts. She used her time during the entire first round to launch a pre-emptive defense of Hillary Clinton -- which pissed off the families. I heard that afterwards. That's why I wrote what I wrote about the hearing, about it being like Chinatown. The ending of that film. You had these grieving family members wanting answers and you had people like Maloney not even acknowledging their presence, not even saying the names of the four who died, but wasting everyone's time as if she's Hillary Clinton's bruiser boyfriend and nobody better say a word about Maloney's steady.
Dona: Ava, you and C.I. have been at a lot of the Benghazi hearings. Not all, as you point out in your media pieces this week. ["Media: The Destruction of McClatchy will be broadcast (it all hits the fan)" and "Media: The destruction of McClatchy will be broadcast (Iraq)"] The idiotic Jonathan S. Landay claimed he'd been at all of them and he hadn't and you two point out a hearing you attended, for example, that he wasn't present at. Landay missed several points and we can talk about that but to pick up on the issue of naming the four.
Ava: Sure. It wasn't just Chris Stevens who died on September 11, 2012. And saying "Chris Stevens and three others" is insulting. I can remember on Comedy Central clips where stand ups are riffing on Gilligan's Island and how, in the early seasons, the Professor and Mary Ann are left out of the lyrics, reduced to "and the rest." If that's worth noting about fictional characters, you better believe it matters in terms of actual people who were killed in a terrorist attack. It does not put anyone out to mention all four. The day before these hearings, there was a nomination hearing at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. We weren't at this hearing --
Dona: In your media pieces for this edition, this is the hearing you point to as an example of how you two haven't attended every hearing?
Ava: Right. And we were asked after that hearing was over -- we weren't there, we were at another hearing -- if we could take the time to note that Senator Robert Menendez, Chair of the Committee, did note all four by name. Did make a point to be sure that all four were recognized. We said we'd work it in somehow but we didn't know where or when. So here it is now. Good for New Jersey's Junior Senator. I have other things to talk about but I am making a point to register that. I will make a point to say how sad that I have to note it. Good for Menendez but bad for the Democratic Party that they won't acknowledge the four by name. You mentioned Landay, McClatchy Newspapers' idiot gas bag. He was on NPR Friday talking about the hearing and swearing there was nothing new there and there was nothing to report. We've already talked about how Friday's e-mail stories came about as a result of the conversations about e-mails at the hearing. We've talked about how the Committee was informed that Susan Rice's media appearances harmed the investigation and did damage to US relations with Libya. Landay didn't mention those topics nor did he cover the points raised in Ruth's Wednesday night report and I'm tossing to Ruth.
Ruth: Thank you. The stand down order. There was a Lt. Col. Gibson -- whose first name was never mentioned in the hearings. Testimony was that this person over Special Operations Command Africa was in Tripoli, Libya with a team of special forces and that they were getting ready to fly to Benghazi when they were ordered to stand down. Mr. Hicks testified that they were not happy about that, the ones who were ordered to stand down. They were upset and in disbelief that Americans were being attacked elsewhere in the country and that they were US special forces and were not being allowed to travel to Benghazi to help Americans in the midst of an ongoing attack. You can refer to my report for the exchanges on this, I have several excerpts from the hearing. But this is shocking. I heard the NPR conversation or what ever you want to call it that Jonathan S. Landay participated in. He was an uninformed idiot. My only surprise was that Ava and C.I. did not pick him apart on how he lied about what the media was reporting in terms of the e-mails.
Ava: We wanted to, Ruth, but to be honest, we could not stand listening to his voice. C.I. wrote down the section you are talking about and did so from memory. But she said she might have left out "and" or "the" in it. We were not in the mood to listen to him and check it so we left it out. If the show had provided a transcript, which they still have not, we would have checked it against that. We do quote him at length in both pieces as it is and we did go back and check our transcript of those remarks against the audio. He said a great deal, as you know, and we cannot cover everything he said. A transcript should have gone up Friday but will, we are told, be up Monday. If that is the case, we will return to the topic next week but, again, we could not take his lies. That he lied about Iraq was the most outrageous. On outrageous, Dona, you were asking about embarrassments. I am not big on prissy when it comes to Congress. So US House Rep. Gerry Connolly's always a joke. But he was a bigger joke than usual. At one point, he tore into Hicks for saying that Patrick Kennedy wasn't invited to speak to the ARB -- the Accountability Review Board on Benghazi. I didn't remember that taking place. Hicks apologized if he'd stated that but said he didn't think he had. I checked my notes and I checked C.I.'s notes -- C.I.'s notes are basically a full transcript. No, Hicks didn't say it. So Gerry Connelley in his deranged prissy state attacked a witness for saying something that the witness hadn't stated. Gerry Connelly's a joke. He looks like a white rat, just to give a visual. And when he opens his mouth and starts talking his priss, you really wish he'd just see himself in the mirror for once and how ridiculous he looks.
Dona: Ava, you mentioned the ABR -- and I know this has gone on way longer than we'd planned -- but you mentioned the ABR and one of the authors of that was Thomas Pickering. Pickering got media traction last week with a claim and Media Matters is now pimping him as 'shut out' of the hearing. I wanted you to address that claim.
Ava: I certainly will but can I toss back to Ruth? Ruth, you were talking about the Lt. Col. Gibson and how he was told to stand down. Hicks was asked about that, could you please note what Hicks said.
Ruth: Sure. I believe you are talking about why and who ordered the stand down. Correct?
Ava: Yes.
Ruth: Mr. Hicks was asked that by US House Rep. Ron DeSantis from Florida. And Mr. Hicks responded, "I think the right person to pose that question to is Lt. Col. Gibson."
Ava: Exactly. Pickering did not contact the Committee, he contacted the White House to state he wanted to testify. Why? Why would you do that? The White House doesn't choose the Committee's witnesses. What a bunch of nonsense, what a media stunt. But as Ruth's quote notes, this isn't the last hearing. Democrats on the Committee even agreed with that on the hearing when they referred to statements made by, for example, General Martin Dempsey, Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, or NIA Director James Clapper. There was a feeling, expressed repeatedly, that they might need to bring those witnesses and others back before the Committee. Pickering himself? It's been stated the Committee would be happy to schedule a hearing to take testimony from him. This was a whistle-blower hearing. As Kat's pointed out, it was the longest hearing we can remember. Had Pickering been there with just two rounds of questioning, not only would the Committee have missed votes, but we would have been there for seven hours. I don't know that the press would stomach that. As it was the hearing was far too long to provide easy coverage of it. We've been talking forever, it seems, and there's still so much from that hearing that we haven't touched on.
Dona: We have been going on forever. C.I. help me out, I've got about twenty other topics on my list. Obviously, we can't do them all. What should I keep?
C.I.: I'd like to discuss what I noted about Landay and the NPR discussion. I think that Cheryl Mills certainly has to be discussed. The other topics? They're important but we've covered a large number of topics already. That's me. Others can disagree.
Dona: That's fine. And if you do disagree, you can include it in your response. I want move to Cheryl Mills and toss to Kat, Wally and Ruth for this. Who is Cheryl Mills?
Kat: Cheryl Mills is a Clintonista from the 90s. Hillary brought Mills over from her 2008 presidential campaign into the State Department where Mills was both Counselor and Chief of Staff to Hillary. She also led the State Dept.'s prepping of anyone who spoke about Benghazi, to the ARB or anywhere else. Cheryl Mills was the gatekeeper, Cheryl Mills was the enforcer. Ruth?
Ruth: Ms. Mills gave an order after the attacks. US House Rep. Jason Chaffetz was the first member of Congress to visit Benghazi after the attacks. Ms. Mills gave the order to Gregory Hicks that no one was to speak one-on-one to Mr. Chaffetz. The State Department had sent an attorney, in a different plane, following Chaffetz and the attorney would be present for any and all conversations that the diplomatic employees would have with Chaffetz. This was considered odd to the Committee because they always have one-on-ones with the person in charge -- Mr. Hicks was in charge of Benghazi after Ambassador Chris Stevens was killed, Mr. Hicks had been second in command. It is considered a courtesy and a show of respect for Congress, as Chair Issa, among others, pointed out. This move was unheard of. They referred to the attorney as "the minder" and "the babysitter" in the hearing. Mr. Hicks did speak with Mr. Chaffetz alone. This resulted in an immediate call from Cheryl Mills who must have been informed immediately by "the minder" of what was taking place. Kat or Wally?
Kat: I'll grab, Wally's pointing to me. Mills wanted to know what was said. Hold on a second. Okay, this is Hicks testifying, "She asked for a report on the visit which I provided. The tone of her voice was unhappy, as I recall it, but I faithfully reported how the visit transpired. I described the content of the briefing." It was noted that such a call was akin to hearing from Secretary Clinton herself.
Dona: And what was the reason given in defense of Mill's edict?
Wally: Democrats on the Committee testified for Mills. I didn't realize that was their role, but okay. They stated that Mills made the edict because she had heard that some of the staff was uncomfortable about the thought of talking to Jason Chaffetz. Apparently they thought he might trip them up with math or science questions, who knows. So that's why Cheryl Mills issued the edict. Do you buy that, because I don't? If that were the case, what you do is you say, "If you're not comfortable, only speak to him with the attorney I'm sending present." You don't declare no one can talk to him alone. So it's another lie from another lie. I mean, come on. There's an e-mail she wrote that the Committee wants released to the public, I think it should be. Doug Collins noted, in a discussion on Mills, that his constituents in Georgia are looking for the truth. I think that's what most of us are looking for. I don't think there can be many more hearings like this though. Briefly, I think there's need to be a single committee. As it is, some of the reporters were having hissy fits about Lindsey Graham and what he had said and making that their report on the Committee. This was a House Committee, Graham doesn't even serve in the House, he's a senator.
Dona: Okay. Last topic, I believe. On The Diane Rehm Show last Friday, Jonathan S. Landay disgraced himself by insisting there was nothing to discuss, nothing new. Ava and C.I. demolish the liar in their pieces this week -- they've got two media pieces -- but they couldn't cover it all. C.I. wants to address an offensive moment on The Diane Rehm Show. Diane's to blame?
C.I.: Yes, she is because she has allowed this topic to come up before. She's never called it out. Just to back up, Landay was bragging about attending the hearing Wednesday and presenting himself as an expert on Benghazi. Four Americans were killed in a terrorist attack. I am getting real tired -- and pretty pissed -- at them being blamed for their own deaths. Diane took a caller that she shouldn't have taken who wanted to float -- and she's allowed this before on her show -- that it is Chris Stevens' fault that he is dead. Chris Stevens should not have gone to Benghazi and he should not have stayed overnight, the caller insisted. I'm getting sick and tired of hearing that people killed by terrorists are to blame for their own deaths.
Dona: Let me stop you to repeat what we're talking about. People are saying Chris Stevens was killed because of his own fault. The US Ambassador to Libya died because of his own fault -- presumably they assume that he was being 'reckless.'
C.I.: Right. Anne Gearan wasn't in the hearing. Karen DeYoung was covering the hearing for The Washington Post. But Gearan was on the second hour of The Diane Rehm Show with Jonathan S. Landay. She didn't present herself as an expert. But when this offensive nonsense was raised -- and treated as a serious topic -- Anne did point out that Chris Stevens stayed overnight because he had a meeting in Benghazi the following morning. It was also noted that others had stayed over with no problems. So give her credit for pushing back on that slander. This is Hicks from Wednesday's hearing, "At least one of the reasons he was in Benghazi was to further the Secretary's wish that that post become a permanent constituent post and also there because we understood that the Secretary intended to visit Tripoli later in the year. We hoped that she would be able to announce to the Libyan people the establishment of a permanent constituent post in Benghazi at that time." He was being questioned by US House Rep Doug Collins. Hicks declared, "Chris told me that in his exit interview with the Secretary after he was sworn in, the Secretary said we need to make Benghazi a permanent post and Chris said 'I'll make it happen'." That alone is one reason he was there. More importantly, the US government signed off on Chris Stevens being there and did so weeks before. I'm quoting Hicks in the hearing, "Washington was fully informed that the ambassador was going to Benghazi, we informed them August 22nd or there abouts." While a person killed by terrorists was being smeared as responsible for his own death, Jonathan S. Landay noted none of this. The self-proclaimed 'expert' on Wednesday's hearing did not note this, did not reject the idea that Chris Stevens caused his own death. Landay's an idiot.
Dona: Okay. And on the topic list was that Hillary called Hicks at two in the morning during the attacks. I was hoping to do a little riff on that. 'She asked in 2008 who would be ready to take the three a.m. call when maybe she should have worried how she'd handle placing a two a.m. call.' We had a number of other topics. In addition to following the press on this, I read over Ava and C.I.'s notes. US House Rep Jason Chaffetz made a point of remarking on Hillary's January testimony that Hillary made a point of telling the House that Hicks was responsible, Hicks and the people on the ground in Libya, He summed it up as her saying, "It wasn't us it was them." And he noted how laughable that was to say when you're also insisting, "I take full responsibility -- but it was them that made the decisions." This has been a rush transcript and we did not get to veterans issues. We didn't even get all of our topics on this. I think we did establish that the hearing was intense and covered a huge number of topics. Our new e-mail address is thethirdestatesundayreview@yahoo.com.
