Roundtable on racist and sexist reactions

Participating in this roundtable are The Third Estate Sunday Review's Ty, Jess, Jim, Dona and Ava, Cedric of Cedric's Big Mix, Mike of Mikey Likes It!, Betty of Thomas Friedman is a Great Man, Elaine who's filling in for Rebecca at Sex and Politics and Screeds and Attitude, Rebecca herself, the incredibly cool Kat of Kat's Korner and C.I. of The Common Ills. As always Dallas is hunting down links for us and we thank him for that.

Ava: The first thing we all wanted to do was to start by checking in with Cedric, Mike and Elaine since they've begun posting recently. We'll start with Cedric. What's been the biggest surprise?

Cedric: Well, hmm. I guess I'd say the racism. The open racism in e-mails. I wrote about it and noted that when it's all said and done, bottom line, I think we need to know it. Racism hasn't gone away and better you know the enemy.

Ty: When it's been my day to cover the e-mails here and I've opened a really sexist e-mail about Ava and C.I.'s TV reviews, I have done a response and called the person to the carpet. What I get back is usually "I was just joking. I'm not really sexist." I'm wondering if you've called anyone on it.

Cedric: In a reply? No, I just blow them off. I mean, they would probably do what they do when you've called them and be "It was a joke!" It's not a joke. If it is a joke, the fact that they'd go there, threaten lynching, for instance, tells you that joke or not, that's where they're coming from.

Betty: Agreed.

Elaine: Do you find that your distorted? When people e-mail? This week, I got an e-mail saying I had stated that Paul Hackett had no right to run office because he served in the military. That's not what I wrote.

Ava: Let's note what you did write: "Military service is not a requirement for public office. It shouldn't be a liability either."

Jess: That's pretty clear cut.

Elaine: Exactly. But Morey didn't grasp it and wrote this nasty e-mail about how I had stated that Hackett shouldn't have run for office because he'd served in the military and I never wrote that. So when you get the racist e-mails, Cedric, are they addressing what you said or distorting it?

Cedric: I don't know if it's I wasn't clear or if the person can't read but, yeah, I'm reading it and thinking, "That's not what I wrote." I don't go back and check because I've got a pretty good idea of what I would say and what I wouldn't. But this is something that everyone gets and one of the great things about us all coming together.

C.I.: I'll leap in here because people can call me on anything. But I don't like taking the blame for something I didn't write. And recently, I got an e-mail insisting on a correction, which was done, but the mistake wasn't mine. I was quoting another site. To correct the mistake, a typo, I took it out of quotes. But I doubt seriously the person e-mailing bothered to e-mail the site I was quoting, and the link was there, judging by the e-mail that staed I had mispelled ____. I have a ton of typos and always will. I'll take responsibility for my own. But in the future, if someone finds a typo at The Common Ills and it turns out that it comes from a quote from another site and the site is clearly credited for it, I won't correct it. I'm also not doing anymore corrections to e-mails that don't name the entry or provide a link to it or provide a date. E-mailing me that "You got ____ wrong" and not providing me with any sense of where the error occurs is nonsense. At a minimum, there are three posts every day. The Common Ills has been going on since November. I have no time to track down an error you're pointing out without giving any information as to where it occurred. That's especially bothersome when it comes from a New York Times reporter because, were I to e-mail them about an error and provide them with no date, no title of the article, I'm sure it would go right into the trash box.

Rebecca: The thing about C.I. is that when something is brought up, C.I. will immediately take the fall --

Elaine: I'd argue be open to the criticism and evaluate it.

Rebecca: Fine. But then, after reflection, if it turns out there's no error or it's nothing that was written, C.I. will get extremely pissed off.

C.I.: I don't like being distorted and you and Elaine know why and know how far that goes back. Trash me for what I did say and that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But make up things and I get really pissed. I don't deny that.

Cedric: And if you're pissed in an entry, it's usually obvious, to me anyway, when I'm reading it.
It's also obvious to me when something is a joke but, like at my site, I haven't done a lot of jokes or humor because one time I did and readers completely missed it.

Jim: Betty, is that something that happens with you?

Betty: See, I don't have to deal with racism really. I've gotten very few e-mails where anyone's been racist. I'm being humorous and that's clearly marked at the site because C.I. told me the disclaimer would make it obvious. When C.I. was talking me through how to set up the site on Blogger. And since I'm being funny, I think I'm not really shocking anyone. Whoopi Goldberg and others have made it safe for a black woman to be funny. It's an accepted role. Also, since it's a humor site, and clearly marked, I think the people coming to it grasp that and if they don't think it's funny, they move on to something else. But I can read something at Cedric's site and I know, I just know, someone's going to feel the need to make a racist remark.

Jim: Because?

Betty: He's not being humorous and he's talking, directly, about how he feels. There's a tendency, especially if you're expressing disappointment with a Democratic leader, for someone to tell you, "You can't do that!" That has nothing to do with a website or a blog, it happens in real life and I'm sure you can find many black people who can talk about that because it's very common. You express criticism and you'll get it thrown in your face, best case scenario, "Well Republicans are worse!" No one's saying they aren't. But there are times when Democrats, and I'm a Democrat, my entire family is, I was raised as one and will always be one, need to be held accountable.

Ty: There's a tendency to take the African-American voter for granted and when that's noted, speaking for me, I've seen exactly what Betty's talking about. If you point out that a candidate of any level isn't addressing the African-American community, either via issues or through speaking engagements, you will hear from some Democrats, "Well the Republicans are worse!"
And, like Betty said, no one's saying that they aren't. No one's saying, "Because this candidate is ignoring me, I'm going to go vote for the racist." But we are saying that candidates need to be more inclusive. I had a pretty cool coach and I can remember a candidate being discussed and him going off on us. He didn't use the n-word, but he did say, "You people" and other comments that were offensive. I'm sure he was frustrated but get frustrated with the fact that a candidate is writing off a loyal base, don't go to racism.

Cedric: And sometimes it's just a way to attack. The person may not be racist or sexist but they want to hurt you and they go to the easiest way they can think of. In which case it's cultural racism if not personal and people need to check themselves for it. But like Mike's gotten trashed for being Catholic. And I think that has to do with the fact that it's known he's Catholic and so when people want to insult him, they'll go there.

Mike: Yeah. When someone's upset with somethign I wrote they'll usually bring up something like, "Why don't you become a priest and go molest a little boy!" or "You're so mistaken because you were obviously sexually abused by a priest and you liked it." And I'll be like, "What in the world caused that?" But Cedric and I were talking about it and it's like he's saying, they'll go for what they know. I know Rebecca fights back at her site but I'm betting one of the best things about her vacation is avoiding all the e-mails calling her a slut and worse.

Rebecca: When I'm reading those, I will use them. I won't run from them, I'll note them in a post. But taking this break has really brought home to me how much those can get me down. I mean I'll come out swinging. Or if someone's not using those kinds of words but they're being sexist. I'm like Cedric, I'd rather know those type of people exist. But it has been a relief to avoid all of that while I'm on vacation.

Ava: On that note, I want to point out that you're not retiring, you're not quitting, you're just on vacation. That has been coming up a lot lately. Mike and I discussed it at his site.

Rebecca: I'm just taking a vacation. My frustration level was so high that I wasn't going to be any use to anyone. I've needed a break for personal reasons, I should have taken one last year and really gotten into touch with a number of issues that I'd shoved down and ignored. But it's a vacation. And hasn't Elaine done a great job?

Dona: An excellent job. And let's talk about that because this week especially, the posts have read like there's a greater level of comfort. Am I seeing something that's not there?

Elaine: No, you're correct. I obviously knew nothing about what I was doing. Rebecca calls me that morning and that night I'm blogging. I'm not really big on going into the personal in a forum like that anyway. And there's also the fact that it's Rebecca's site and she's built up her own following by being herself. Part of the comfort comes from the fact that I've been doing it but it also comes from the support I've gotten from her readers and from all of you.

Jess: Mike's stepped into Rebecca's role of highlighting what other community sites have been up to.

Mike: At Rebecca's request.

Jess: Right and there's also been a relief at not being the newbie.

Mike: Yeah but hold on.

Ava: We're listening to the live broadcast of Democracy Now! while we do this roundtable and Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth was performing for anyone wondering why Mike called for a pause. To pick back up, Jess was asking Mike about the relief involved in not being the newest blogger.

Mike: Well it's nice to have something under my belt, I guess you'd say. But like it's nice to be able to hear from Elaine or Cedric and they've got a question and I can actually answer it. I mean Jim, Rebecca and C.I. were answering questions from me all the time, everyone was. Rebecca even came over to the house one time to help me with something. So it's just nice to know I can help someone too.

Rebecca: The biggest mistake I made was in announcing that I'd gone to a play reading. When that went up, I got these e-mails of "You live near Boston!" People were excited that were in the area and that's great. But at the same time, I thought of some of the threatening e-mails that had come in and thought, "You know, you really shouldn't have mentioned the play."

C.I.: Camilo Mejia break.

Ava: Martin Espada read a poem he'd written about Mejia on the special Democracy Now! broadcast that we're all listening to as we do this roundtable for those who are wondering.

Dona: I hope this broadcast goes into the archives of Democracy Now! because we'd all really prefer to be listening to it and then starting work on this edition but time doesn't permit that. Knowing the demands on everyone's time as well as our need to meet on our deadline, I'd suggest that we allow those issues to be the focus of this and that we wrap up.

Ava: Well if there are no objections to that then I'm going to hand over to Kat since I don't believe she's had an opportunity to speak. Then we'll let Rebecca have the last words since she's using her vacation time to participate.

Kat: Well music is something people are passionate about so if I get a very passionate e-mail, even one that attacks me, I usually take it in stride. But I don't take the e-mail as seriously as other people do. I read it. It's rare that I reply. If someone's asking me to defend my view, it's already up in whatever they're complaining about. I do respond to Common Ills members who have questions about where to find something or who want to suggest something for a future review. For myself, it's just e-mail. I don't take it seriously, maybe my mistake, the way I would if I was speaking to someone face to face. I know C.I. takes it seriously and tries to reply to as many as possible. But I'm more along the lines of Jim. I'll shrug it off. Praise or bashing, I'll shrug it off. That's not a slam at C.I. C.I.'s getting e-mails about issues and that's quite a bit different than what I receive. And Mike and Cedric are just figuring out where they stand on e-mails. I'm sure others tell them different, but I've said, take it with a grain of salt. That's not to dismiss the racists or sexists. Or the anti-Catholics. But if you're lucky enough to be able to avoid the e-mail for a few days, you should. Again, C.I.'s not got that option. Ava, C.I. and Jess are going through those e-mails for a reason and it goes to the way that The Common Ills is set up. That's it, I'm done.

Rebecca: Well I think Kat's making some solid points here. I also think, and Jim agrees with me on this, that the important thing is getting something posted. If the e-mail is interfering with that, I'm not sure what the point is. More readers, or members for The Common Ills, are going to read what's up then read a personal e-mail. I realize that The Common Ills is a community, but the rest of us have the option of ignoring the e-mail when it's giving us a headache or we don't have time and I strongly recommend that if the choice is between the e-mail or the blog or between the e-mail and doing something away from the computer, you ignore the e-mail. When I get back from vacation, the e-mails will have piled up. I'm not looking at them now. I'm on vacation. When I get back, I'll begin working my way through. I won't have a deadline for that. And if someone's trying to bait me with sexism or if centrists and rightests are just heavy with the attacks, I reserve the right to blow off the e-mail for a few days. Like I said before, even when I'm responding to the e-mails in a post, to the sexism, it does do a number on you. So I will always take the attitude that if something bothers me, I don't have to continue reading. I don't just mean some idiot's e-mail. I'll stop reading when the attacks start. But I mean all the e-mail. If I'm bothered by something, ticked off, angry, whatever, this is my life and I reserve the right to do myself a favor and put the e-mail on hold.

Ava: And we'll go ahead and conclude on that note. If you missed Democracy Now!'s special Saturday broadcast, you missed two and a half hours of important radio.