Ty: Okay, as I warned everyone when I proposed this roundtable, the bulk of this will be for C.I. Jump in when you want and I'll be mixing in as many questions and topics as I can during our designated time limit, but most of it is questions and comments regarding C.I. For example, Stewart has e-mailed three times in the last three weeks on the same topic. He notes that C.I. sounding the warning bells on Pacifica and how there would be payback for the propaganda they aired throughout 2008. He notes the WBAI transmitter being locked and issues of libel and also losing station licenses being raised by members of the board in the last weeks. He says, "Can't say you didn't warn me." I replied to his first two e-mails and his third he said what he really wanted was a comment from C.I. So C.I.?
C.I.: Well actually, although I did issue multiple warnings at The Common Ills and then sat back and enjoyed it -- Rebecca has a story there -- Ava and I have covered some of Pacifica's problems here. For example, we wrote "Panhandle Media" and that includes some heads up to what was to come -- and that's just one example. But let me toss to Ava and I'll add a statement, if needed, after she's done.
Ava: We did hit on this repeatedly in 2008 and, as C.I. points out, we did it at first as warnings and then we washed our hands of it because the programmers and managers were yet again bringing it on themselves. You can't help the ones who want no help. At that point we just laughed and I'm stopping to include Rebecca really quick and then I'll resume.
Rebecca: Three Fridays ago, there was a hilarious rip-apart in a Friday snapshot about Pacifica and the snapshot was too long. C.I. ended up pulling that commentary -- about six long paragraphs -- from the snapshot. Which is too bad because it was brilliant and hilarious. I complained and was told, "Don't worry, it's coming." But the Pacifica board is not and has not been pleased with the stunts that have been taking place on air. The stations are the most embarrassing and non-professional atmospheres and they could get away with that if they could pull it together on the air; however, they can't. And you're going to see some changes this year. Some of them were noted in the section's removed from the snapshot. I'm not sure how much to share so I'll toss back to Ava.
Ava: Okay. Well, what's happening right now was known and what's waiting to happen is known as well. Unless you're a pathetic programmer or manager. WBAI, there's a memo that's been made public, and the money estimates in it are very conservative, the monthly debt is actually thought to be three times the figure given. And the question the board's asking -- a good one -- is why WBAI bleeds so damn much money? It doesn't really originate a lot of programming. What it does originate is cheaply made and cheap sounding like the three hour call in show every weekday afternoon. Al Lewis is dead. Someone forgot to tell WBAI. He died three years ago. What the hell is his ass still doing taking up an hour of weekly programming? And not an hour buried in the overnights, but Saturday at noon? The man is dead. He should be off the air. And that is one of the biggest indicators of how too much power has been handed to the programmers who refuse to leave when they should and hang on and hang on even though what they have to offer is useless, dated and boring. And they will never shake up their programs -- the ones still allegedly living -- because they have no reason to, they think that own their slots. The fact of the matter is a lot of people need to be fired and, in talks with various board members in 2008, we repeatedly pointed out -- C.I. and I -- that the economic meltdown would provide a means to clean the decks in many cases. I don't know how much C.I. can go into any of the audits that have been going on, but I'll toss on that.
C.I.: There are audits going on, there have been audits going on. How does anyone working for 'community radio' end up with a six or, in one case, seven-figure salary? Howard Stern's broadcasting from WBAI? No, he's not. No one with any commercial appeal is. You want to make those kind of figures, go into commercial broadcasting. But, to use WBAI as an example, they're paying out a huge amount for these cut & paste programs. I'm not referring to Out FM or -- I'm blanking, Ruth, the song you love to the feminist show on WBAI?
Ruth: Joy of Resistance.
C.I.: Okay, thank you. Those two shows, to give an example, are produced on a budget in keeping with community radio. That is not the case for a number of other shows. And, of course, Pacifica should not be paying any programmer six figures or more for a show if they don't own the rights to it. When community radio is paying that much money, they damn well better own the archives. Again, Howard Stern does not broadcast on WBAI. As the ratings demonstrate. There is no excuse for the money being spent and, point of fact, when you are running in debt month after month for years -- this is not a new thing for WBAI -- it's time you started talking to the money hogs and explain it was time for cuts. They didn't do that. WBAI's not the only station with problems but -- especially in terms of the budget problems -- it is the station with the most severe problems.
Jim: Why is that?
C.I.: They spend a huge amount of money and they have very little coming in. They've driven away listeners with Bernard and Amy's petty squabbles with other WBAI staff and programmers. Piss off Bernard or Amy and hit the road because they'll come after you and get their freak squad -- you people know who you are -- harrassing and screaming at people at their own homes. What's been going down at Pacifica nation-wide is disgusting. But when you turn to WBAI and see what's been going on, see how programmers have destroyed other people, it's flat out disgusting. There's nothing free speech about lying to someone's neighbor that they are a rapist or bigot or any of the other smear tactics the WBAI goons have regularly used to force people out. And, another expense, has been the lawsuits. When the lawsuits come in, everybody needs to understand that bulls**t behavior ends, that it is jeopordizing the station. But that wasn't conveyed. The same crap that got Amy Goodman kicked off NPR -- no, it wasn't the Mumia broadcast like she like to imply. She was kicked to the curb because she couldn't be professional, because she thought if you screamed the loudest and cursed the most and threatened bodily harm, you'd get your way. Now that crap plays at WBAI, it doesn't work at NPR and that's what got her kicked out of NPR in the 90s. There has been absolutely no professionalism at WBAI. People are openly threatened. Now community radio -- by its very nature -- is always going to be a pool of backbiters and backstabbers where everyone's competing for crumbs because no one's supposed to get rich off community radio -- though Goodman's managed to. And all the stations have their own problems. But the problems at WBAI are legendary and they have had years to fix them and have refused to do so.
Jim: So there is a legal issue, in terms of the station getting sued for character attacks and threats, and what else? How does WBAI, for example, manage to spend more each month than it takes in?
C.I.: That's the question that's going to have to be answered. This issue did not start with the recession of 2008. The entire decade has seen WBAI waste money it didn't have. WBAI's audience has dwindled in the last four years, you can chart that. It was already a small audience -- and that's not in comparison to NPR or commercial radio, I'm speaking in terms of KPFA or KPFK, compared to them, WBAI has a very small audience. And it has gotten smaller and smaller.
Cedric: Well of course, I mean you saw, in 2008, Bernard White was stating on air, and he's the program director of WBAI, that if Barack Obama did not win it would say this or that about America. Mainly that the United States was racist. What a bunch of crap. I hate fat asses like Bernie White. I voted for Ralph Nader, kiss my authentically Black ass, Bernie.
Rebecca: But that's the sort of stuff that has gotten WBAI specifically, and all of the Pacifica stations, in trouble.
Mike: There's not a bit of difference between the current WBAI and the US government propaganda of Voice Of America. There really isn't. Both exist to celebrate the US government. WBAI does it by tongue bathing Barack Obama daily. Golly, I didn't know the US had elected a radical president. I thought we had a Corporatist War Hawk. But allegedly free speech radio can't stop praising Barry Obama.
Elaine: This is the issue with regards to station's license. They are anticipating serious challenges -- due to complaints -- as a result of their propaganda efforts on the part of Barack Obama. And, I was discussing this with a Pacifica board member C.I. and I have known for years, the response from any of the stations will be, "That's one programmer!" And we have ___ and they'll point to, in most cases, weak ass criticism of Barack. On one show. My advice was their approach was wrong. The programmers are responsible for their content, the station's news division is supposed to deal in reality and be unbaised. What's the little whore on KPFA's name?
C.I.: Aileen Alfandary.
Elaine: Right, I always blank on her name because I've always had zero tolerance for whores pretending to bring you the news. So I suggested they check out Aileen's wonderful Pravda bits during news breaks. And he did and got back to me to ask how those ever made it on air? I said, "You're the one sitting on the board, you explain it to me."
Ruth: Pacifica is public radio and as such and due to its tax status there are things it can and cannot do. It can tilt to the left or the right, even in its newscasts, and that is allowed, but it can not be seen as being an organ for either the Republican or Democratic Party. And the problem, why they ran off listeners throughout 2008, is they became a non-stop party organ for the Democratic Party.
Jess: Ruth, I'm jumping in over you and I'm not trying to silence you but this is a point where I can work in some third party stuff, so I hope you don't mind. I'm a Green. And if any of the Pacifica stations weren't Democratic Party organs, the Green Party would be covered as a real party. I wanted to jump in here because Ava and C.I. didn't just laugh at where Pacifica was headed, they also advised on what was being done wrong and what needed to be done to fix it. In their writing here, they did that. It wasn't listened to. They didn't expect it to be. But they knew people like Amy Goodman were creating problems at Pacifica and creating a huge backlash where the board would have to step in. One of the things they pointed out -- and Dallas don't look it up because it's one of their articles in the summer of 2008 but I can't remember which one -- was how the Greens and Ralph were shut out in every way on Democracy Now. Cynthia McKinney was the Green Party presidential candidate, Ralph was the independent presidential candidate. And every headline that 'followed' the campaign should have included them but it didn't. Instead Amy would say what John McCain did -- what he did wrong, always wrong in her mind -- and then what Barack did. And headline after headline, day after day, it was a two-person race by Amy's decree. Now Ralph and Cynthia were rarely on the program but we got plenty of stand-ins for Barack. We got non-stop Barack supporters on lengthy segments. And then, after that four to five times a week, multiple times each day, we were supposed to be thrilled that about every four weeks Amy would interview Cynthia or Ralph. That's bulls**t and it's bulls**t that Bernard White's endorsing Barack on air. That station is like a sleazy little store with bad lighting and dirt and grime on the windows. Possibly because they refuse to let the sunlight in. But as a third party member, I want to be on record that Pacifica has allowed their stations to act as a Democratic front and a Democratic Party organ and I'm damn tired of Greens who want to whisper that and won't take their complaint public. Back to Ruth, sorry to cut you off.
Ruth: Not a problem. Now one thing Dallas can link to is Ava and C.I. noting the difference between Green Party convention coverage and Democratic Party convention coverage and another is when Democracy Now! could have had a live debate between Ralph Nader and Cynthia McKinney but instead played clips of Barack Obama and tried to turn the two into Barack boosters. Ms. McKinney and Mr. Nader had been shut out of the presidential debates. Allegedly Amy Goodman wanted to rectify that; however, her program gave less time to Ms. McKinney and Mr. Nader speaking live. They were short changed so that Amy Goodman could play lengthy clips of Barack Obama speaking. But Mike had a really interesting point and he is correct, you expect cheerleading of a current US president from Voice Of America. You expect a critique of him or her -- regardless of who the person is -- from Pacifica Radio. They are not offering that.
Jim: Just to point out, Dallas hunts down links for these roundtables. Ava and C.I. take the notes. Someone will type them up. While we're doing this and Ava and C.I. are taking notes, Dallas will be hunting down links and a have a list at the end that will be included by whomever types this up.
Dona: Or whomevers -- plural because sometimes we divide up the typing duties on the roundtables. I want to add something as well. Jess probably caught this but doesn't want to make it all about third party so I will. Ruth mentioned Ava and C.I. covering the difference between what Amy Goodman offered as Green Party convention "coverage" and what the Democrats got. But Ruth didn't explain it so I will briefly. The Green Party held a multi-day convention which began on a Thursday. Amy Goodman ignored it that starting day and on Friday. When she returned from the weekend, she reduced the multi-day convention, which had wrapped up on a Sunday, to one brief headline. That was it. A four day, national party's political convention was 'covered' in 'full' via a headline. By contrast for the Democratic Party, she went to the convention and made the entire week about the convention. Not only that but the hourly program expanded to two hours for the DNC convention. So the Democratic Party got ten hours of convention coverage from Goodman but the Green Party got about a little over thirty seconds.
Marcia: And that's something I really appreciate Ava and C.I. doing, making that point and doing so repeatedly. I'm not a Green, I'm a Democrat. And I really thought, watching and listening each election year, that Amy was doing some amazing job. Oh look, it's 2004 and there's the third party vice presidential candidates debating. But as they pointed out at the start of last year, that's window dressing. There's no real coverage of third parties. She tosses out some crumbs. Now as a Democrat, I'm not surprised I didn't realize that because, for me, it was like, "Oh, this is an interesting story." But for Greens and other third parties, what are they doing not calling this crap out?
Jess: That's a very good point and I thank you for making it.
Marcia: Well not to put you on the spot, but really, why aren't people calling this crap out?
Jess: Because you have faux Greens like Medea Benjmain who will never call it out and you have victim mentality with so many other Greens.
Stan: Can you expand on that?
Jess: We're so grateful for the crumbs because we get nothing. And we, honestly, read our mission statements, act like we don't deserve anything. We're not interested in winning races, if we were we'd run to win. We're interested in striking poses and being the ultimate victims. That's not an excuse not to feature us, by the way. But it is very true that the Green Party needs to grow the hell up and start acting like a real political party. Elaine was calling me last week, want to talk about that?
Elaine: Sure. I would like to feature the Green Party more. I know Jess is bothered by the lack of coverage year round, year in and out. And I know this community has Green Party members; however, I went repeatedly to the Green Party's national website over the last two weeks and there was nothing. Is it a political party? I called Jess and asked him if he was noticing it?
Jess: And I was. And C.I.'s been very vocal to Greens, I'm not talking community members, that they need to be staking their ground in opposition to Barack. Barack's not going to be anyone you want to stand with -- if you're left -- come 2012. The Green Party should be critiquing every thing he does and doing so daily. They should be doing this to say to the left, "We are the party who can represent you." I mean, Bush? Democrats or Greens can oppose him. But want to reveal how alike the two dominant political parties are? You can really only do that with a Democrat in office. These four years should be about building Green Party membership but for that to happen, the Green Party would have to do their job. And, Dallas, no link for them, they haven't earned it.
Betty: Ty, I know you have a long list because I saw it and I know we're still on the first question or topic. Should I be silent here and wait for another topic or interject?
Ty: I think we're almost out of time. Yeah, Dona's nodding. So Betty's going to speak and after her anyone else that wants to needs to jump in. Though the question was on one topic, the discussion actually expanded it to many. Betty?
Betty: I want to, like Ruth, get back to Mike's point because it is true. I live out in the Bay Area now and though I did get the satellite radio fixed in the car, I will still grab a little of KPFA as I drive to and from work and it's just frightening the way they speak of Barack. They talk about him like he's their lover or best friend. This is a president of the United States and, last time I checked, the war machine continued and was now operated by him. The failure of KPFA to address that is why it's such a joke and it really is becoming a joke. People make fun of it. I don't mean conservatives, I mean people on the left. I was really surprised to see how hated KPFA was. And Elaine's right, Aileen Alfandary is a WHORE. That's the only word for her so-called newsbreaks. And she's called a lot worse by the left crowd at my job who make fun of KPFA.
Jim: Dona's slid me a note pointing out that Wally hasn't spoken and that Cedric and Stan have spoken very little. As has Mike who we probably need to go to since his comments now been noted by Betty and Ruth. Kat hasn't spoken but I'm guessing she will if she wants to. Mike?
Mike: Well it's true of KPFA and all the stations. I don't live in California. I've sampled them all. Since the election, I'll check in to see if it's safe to listen or not, if the Invasion of the Body Snatchers has ended and normal people have returned. I never find that to be the case. The show that's most disappointing for me is Law & Disorder. Michael Ratner's been stronger in his writing and all but I just wasn't up to being disappointed again last month, so I avoided it. I'll check in in April. But there is so much garbage, so much Barack worship. It's disgusting. As Betty pointed out, he operates the war machine and the wars haven't stopped.
Cedric: I'm sorry but when I listen to Pacifica these days, I think, "Oh, how I hate White people." I don't hate White people, but those people on the air, those White people, they really get on my nerves. I was talking about this with my grandmother and grandfather and they were explaining this is how Poppy Bush managed to get the conservative judge on the bench, Clarence Thomas. Liberals critized him weakly even though he was offensive. We're talking about a man who they had to hold hearings about sexual harassment. And he made it onto the bench. Because White liberals refused to criticize him the way they would a White person with the same record.
Betty: Sorry to jump back in, but that really is true. And I jumped in because as Matthis Chiroux pointed out, the wars didn't get any less racist because Barack took over them. I wanted to get that in there.
Stan: I agree with him and am glad you put that on the record, I know you've praised him for that before, Betty. But for every Matthis who sees that the issue is the violence, there are a ton of people who think, "Oh, I can't criticize Barack!" We live in a nation of cowards. Want to demonstrate that you're evolved? Hold Barack to the same standard you would a White president.
Cedric: Exactly and the reality is that the increasingly irrelevant Toni Morrison will show up in twenty years to declare of some other candidate, "He will be our first Black president." It'll have to be a "he" because Toni hates women. And in twenty years, she'll be honest that Barack wasn't Black. The same way she was honest in 2008 that Bill Clinton wasn't. Toni Morrison's a professional liar who is damn lucky academia needed a token because she wouldn't have made it as a writer any other way. Write another bad book, Toni, that White reviewers praise out of guilt and we'll all pretend like it sold. The story of Toni's career.
Jim: Wally?
Wally: Well I'm thinking of a conversation with an academic Friday, a friend of C.I.'s, who pointed out that the shrill and strident patrol, he cited Katrina vanden Heuvel and many others, the rest were men, that wanted to make 2008 an election about Bill Clinton, not about George Bush, is doing exactly what they did during the Clinton years. They did nothing. They cheered and pretended like this was the left president. And then, after, they wanted to scream and hiss. Bill Clinton wasn't left -- I like President Clinton, by the way -- he was center-left and we don't get left presidents in the US. But if Bill's presidency was such a nightmare to the shrill and strident, why aren't they holding Barack accountable right now instead of waiting until he's out of office? They made fools out of themselves in the 90s and are doing the same thing all over again.
Kat: I'll throw in that he's considering writing on that topic but is hesitant because when he brings the subject up with college students, they love it and are all for it but when he brings it up to his academic peers, they are outraged. But he's exactly right, the Katrina vanden Heuvels have rolled over and, six or eight years from now, we'll be carping and hissing about things going on right now that they refused to call out.
Jim: Okay, Ty we need to wrap up. Is there anything you can bring in quickly?
Ty: No. But there's one e-mail I wanted to make a topic for this but I think we can let it be a stand alone feature.
Jim: Okay, that's the roundtable. As someone noted earlier, it ended up addressing just one e-mail.