Betty: We're doing this late so people will have to Google -- I'm not going to ask Dallas to look it up. But at the start of the primary season, I brought up some attacks on Erica Jong, a White woman, and how I wasn't expecting her to write specifically about Black women and, honestly, would have been offended if she'd come of as though she was speaking for us. By the same token, I share with Marcia -- and many others -- serious concerns regarding many but let's talk Melissa McEwan because she's pissed off a number of Black community members. I think McEwan gets her props from the White people for being oh-so-f**king-sensitive-and-wonderful that she writes a "racism" watch. I call bulls**t on that. I really am getting sick of being the accessory for the White left whenever they need to prove how 'soulful' and 'wonderful' they are. There is something grossly offensive about a White person attempting to tell the world what it's like to be Black and what racism against Black people is. McEwan makes an idiot out of herself everytime she attempts to pinpoint racism because (a) she doesn't know the Black experience and (b) White girl, Melissa, the Black community has never had the stick up its ass that you so obviously do.
Cedric: Amen! You better know Betty's pissed --
Betty: I damn well am.
Cedric: -- because she's swearing and I have never heard her swear in my entire life. Not even when we were in Mexico for Rebecca's wedding and Betty hurt her shoulder catching her youngest son who was attempting to play daredevil. You could tell Betty was in real pain and all she said was, "Darn." Over and over, she said it, but that's the strongest word she used.
Betty: My kids were present.
Cedric: So Betty's pissed and she's not the only one. Let's be really clear here, a White person trying to talk about what racism is to African-Americans is always going to come off uninformed and patronizing. And McEwan's calls have been laughable repeatedly. For her to do a racism watch --
Ty: And she does no homophobia watch!
Cedric: And she does no homophobia watch, for her to do a racism watch plays out to many African-Americans like, "White girl riding our sorrows and struggles to fame." To be really clear, she could certainly call attention to a post by a person of color. That would be different.
Ty: But it wouldn't prove how groovy she is in all her Whiteness and how she just so gets us. I'm appalled by her. If you're not African-American, shut your damn mouth and let one speak. Quit hogging the attention, quit trying to control the conversation. And carry this over to Democracy Now! where Amy loves to bring on one White or many Whites to sit with her, she's White, and discuss the 'Black experience.' If you're really interested in discussing it, you invite on an African-American.
Betty: It's bad enough they done stole our music now the White Missuh Melissa won't even let us be speaking! Please Missuh Melissa, let a Black woman speak.
Cedric: I'm laughing so hard at Betty's comment. I hope we put that in for the audio version of Hilda's Mix. Betty just did an impersonation that sounded like --
Betty: It was Prissy from Gone With The Wind.
Cedric: Thank you. There is this really offensive take within the African-American community that Whites think they know every damn thing. And when some people, like McEwan, decide they are also experts on the "Black experience," it just amplifies the hostility. As Betty pointed out, and that was probably in January, she defended Erica Jong for not attempting to speak specifically for African-American women. There's no reason Jong should. There are many African-American women capable of speaking. But McEwan's not interested in that, she's interested in coming off like someone who's an expert on being African-American and, let me break it down for her, she will never be that. She needs to sit down and let someone else speak. It's insulting.
Jim: Marcia, this was your topic at your site -- in fact, it's been a topic at your site many times for months now. Would you like to jump in?
Marcia: My site is so named because I truly am Sick of It. Of all of it. And I sometimes feel like, "Oh, do I have to spew tonight?" So I'm actually enjoying listening to what's being said. I agree with all of it. And, to be clear, it's not that they can't write about race, it's that they need to credit. And if they're so damn concerned about racism, how about shutting their damn mouths and highlighting African-Americans. We do know how to speak and to read, Melissa McEwan. We've been doing it for longer than you been alive.
Ty: I don't mean to cut you off --
Marcia: You're not, that's all I really wanted to say. You and Betty are the two who need this format to speak up the most, so have at it.
Ty: Well, I want to be clear about what we're saying here. Rebecca will frequently quote her friend T -- who is African-American -- and she'll also put in something Betty asks her to. But otherwise, Rebecca's bringing up the topic as she does any other. And it's not, "I'm the world's biggest expert on this matter." Or take C.I. Especially in the early days of The Common Ills, people expected C.I. to cover every injustice. And C.I. would step up to the plate. With new sites emerging, there was less pressure on C.I. to cover everything.
Betty: Except from my father who still regularly calls C.I. each day and I will say, "Dad, she doesn't have time for this right now." Due to health.
Ty: Right, Betty's father can get anything up at The Common Ills. Betty's father just has to ask. And it's generally noted, "Betty's father asked me to . . ." unless there's just not time for it.
Betty: Or C.I. doesn't want my father to get the fallout. Which is when I end up taking Rebecca up on her standing offer to blog at her site and will go there and say, "My father called C.I. and begged for that to be included." But the distinction you're making Ty, it is important. But in terms of people like McEwan, it's a different level. With her "racism watch" she is setting herself up as the voice on "racism" against Blacks. And let's not pretend it's on all "racism," because she only covers racism against Blacks. And it is highly offensive to me that a White woman wants to carve out the life I live, carve it up, to get some cred. I mean, what's the Diana Ross line. I'm blanking because I'm angry, someone help me!
C.I.: "You have turned my life into a paperback novel."
Betty: Thank you! "Mirror, Mirror." That is exactly what it feels. My very real experiences are nothing but fodder for a White woman to use and carve out as her grounds when, damn it, she doesn't know the first thing she's talking about. I'm sick of it. It's offensive.
Marcia: I'll jump back in. I mean, I don't expect to be highlighted outside the community so this isn't "Please link to me!" but Melissa McEwan, there are plenty of African-American men and women and, SURPRISE!, we do write about actual racism. So we really don't need you playing Elvis and stealing our moods to advance yourself. That's Ty's point, shut up and highlight actual victims of racism, Melissa McEwan. Shut your damn mouth and stop playing White Princess entitled to chatter on about every damn thing under the sun because, being White, you know it all. And like Cedric pointed out, she writes about racism with a stick up her ass. If African-Americans were as easily offended as Melissa, we would have all slit our wrists a long, long time ago. And that's really the point. Ty and I were talking about this so I'm tossing to Ty if he wants it.
Ty: Sure. A waffle 'advertisement' about Barack? It's the end of the world! Or that's what Melissa tells you. And you look at the drawing and you think, "Huh?" I mean, does Melissa know a single African-American? We have lips a lot bigger than in that ad and those are not pop-eyes. What the hell is that woman's problem? Her problem, I'll tell you what her problem is, she doesn't know what she's talking about and she's trying to present herself as an authority on something she knows nothing about.
Cedric: She's on the outside looking in!
Ty: Betty's about to bust a gut laughing right now and that's because Cedric just nailed it. She's like that Mad TV skit, where the White woman is with the African-American man and she has no idea what's what or that she herself frequently comes off racist. That is Melissa McEwan.
Betty: That was a good one. I want to use Rebecca as an example of how to do it. When we do these roundtables, if the topic's race, anyone can participate. Usually it's those of us who are Black if it's a Black issue -- Ty, Cedric, Marcia and myself. Rebecca will take part in those discussions but she waits until they are established. Rebecca doesn't say, "Hey, I'm a White woman so let me kick things off and let me tell you about racism this week . . ." We're talking about someone who wants all the credit for her bad writing on racism against Black people. It's not her topic. She doesn't need to be 'leading' on the issue. There are plenty of Black bloggers, as Marcia pointed out, writing about the topic. McEwan would offend few if she linked to one, quoted him or her and said, "That's interesting and what I would like to add . . ." But that's not what she's doing. What she's doing is setting herself as the authority and the sole voice on what being Black in today's United States is like. And, White Melissa, you just don't know. Sit down already, you're embarrassing yourself with your Boo-Boo the Clown like ways.
Ty: If I could haul Ruth into this, Ruth, you're Jewish. What do you feel like when Gentiles are talking about the Jewish experience? Is it anything like this?
Ruth: No. But that's because Jews are well represented in the chattering class. As one pointed out during the convention coverage, David Brooks, Mark Shield and Jim Lehrer were speaking, and one of them, not Brooks, pointed out that all three in the segment were Jewish. So while we are a small perecentage of the total population, we are represented and I think that's why I can say "no" to the question. What's being discussed right now is the shutting out of African-American voices and a White woman claiming their topic for herself. Were Jews shut out of the debate and a Gentile repeatedly speaking for us, I would be just as offended by it and I agree with everything the four of you have said.
Jim: Okay, Ava? How about you?
Ava: Well . . . It seems like I'm always telling C.I., "Don't forget she's talking Latino issues again with Anglo Whites." And I'm always referring to Amy Goodman. I do know what Betty, Cedric, Marcia and Ty are talking about. It is very offensive. And it's especially offensive when an Anglo tries to be an expert -- Joan Walsh comes to mind -- on Latinos and doesn't know what the hell she's talking about and not only stereotypes us but does so negatively. It's irritating and it's frustrating and just makes you want to scream because we are so shut out of the media and to hear Anglos talking about us as if we're things -- I mean that's what Melissa's really doing with her "racism watch" to African-Americans. She's saying they're not strong enough or human enough to defend themselves so here comes White Anglo on her horse, riding to save them. That's exactly how she self-presents.
Cedric: I'm jumping back in because I was thinking something similar but not sure how to put it into words. Ava's exactly right. McEwan's attitude is patronizing. It's as though she's saying, "People! There is a problem for the Blacks! And I will save them!" Hey, we didn't ask you to save us. We're working on saving ourselves. And if you actually linked to our conversation, that would prevent you from hogging to the goodness credit, now wouldn't it?
Jim: I'm not trying to close down this topic, but I do want to bring some more people in because race may end up being our only topic for the roundtable. I'm thinking Wally, Mike or Rebecca.
Wally: I'll go first. Race is a tricky thing in America to navigate because people aren't honest about it. And you can't be honest about it if the person tossing out opinions is always some other race than the one being discussed. Sometimes, you have to know enough to shut up and listen. Sometimes, that's the most intelligent thing you can do.
Cedric: And Wally and I do joint-posts all the time. Now something we do is bound to offend someone. But we do take a lot of care in where we aim our anger and our humor. And I will ask, "Wally, is this clear enough or do we need to make it more clear so White people don't think we're coming down on them?" And Wally will ask me, "Are we going to far on that?" Meaning in terms of the African-American community. I'm African-American. I am not an expert on race. I don't pretend to know the White experience or the Latino experience or the Asian-American or bi-racial, or Jewish or whatever. And there are a lot of things we bounce off each other that are funny but we kill them from our piece because we know they could be taken the wrong way. Even so, there's always going to be someone offended. But we've done the work in listening to one another. And we also test it out on C.I. She's our test audience.
Wally: And it's that exchange that's missing when McEwan stands on high, floating on her White cloud, issuing her 'racism' watch. There's no exchange, it is what Melissa says it is and it's a White person opinion of what is racist towards African-Americans and the woman doesn't usually seem to have a clue. I'll ask Cedric, "What am I missing?"
Cedric: And I'll say, "Not a damn thing, Wally. She doesn't know what she's talking about."
Marcia: Jim, if I could, Rebecca's written about how falsely charging someone with racism has been repeatedly used this year to shut down discussion.
Jim: Good point. Rebecca?
Rebecca: Well who knew we had so many full blown racists in the US and on the airwaves? My goodness, from 1992 to 2001, if you believe the lies, a racist occupied the White House! I mean, that slander hasn't gone away. And I can remember the roundtable where Betty was talking about that and about to cry.
Betty: Bill Clinton's not a racist and it is not only hurtful to him to lie like that, it is hurtful to the Black community. Bill Clinton never played "I'm the expert on the race." He wasn't offensive like that the way some people can be. And he always listened. You may not agree with some of his policies or decisions, but there is no question that Blacks were listened to under Bill Clinton and I'll assume the liars pretending otherwise are not only White, they're too damn young to remember the two previous presidents before Bill Clinton was sworn in. I can't talk anymore, somebody grab it before I start crying.
Ty: Okay. Well, the point Betty's so often made is that we, African-Americans, are in the minority population wise and that's only going to become more so in the next ten years. We need our allies and when we start falsely smearing someone like Bill Clinton as a racist, we hurt him and we hurt ourselves. We're in the minority, we need to pull together and we need our real friends to pull together with us. Bill Clinton is a real friend. And a message is sent to White politicians by the false smearing of Bill Clinton. The message is: Step back because you don't know when they'll turn on you.
Kat: Right and I'm jumping in, White woman here, because Betty has talked to me about this topic many times on the phone and in person. She is seriously concerned because you are talking about a small population out of the general population and there is serious work that needs to be done so that progess is made. She was highly offended that a bi-racial man promising the African-American community nothing resulted in attacks on someone she sees as a friend to the Black community. She feels a very supportive and, yes, powerful friend who used that power to lift up the Black community in a manner that did not take place under George H.W. Bush or Ronald Reagan was being spat upon and scorned for a politician -- we're not talking the primary outcomes here, by the way -- who has little to offer but trashing African-American fathers in public over and over.
Marcia: If I can jump in, let me own my guilt. I should have started blogging a lot sooner. I was sick of all the crap being hurled at Hillary and that's why I finally started blogging. But Maya Angelou, a great African-American woman, poet, writer, human being, was not afraid to stand with the Clintons. And what we saw were a lot of people who weren't Democrats -- this is true in the White race as well, by the way -- start screaming these charges at the Clintons that had no basis in reality. And they were posing as 'friends' and as Democrats. Bill Fletcher, your ass ain't Black, it's Red. Why a semi-closeted Communist thinks he can stick his non-Democratic nose into a Democratic Party primary is beyond me but his ass should have been called out.
Cedric: And African-American, White or whatever, what you saw was Panhandle Media's fringe radicals come out presenting as Democrats over and over and making these radical critiques against the Clintons. No problem with that, if they don't pretend they're Democrats. If they're honest about who they are, then people can listen and evaluate for themselves. But when all the Closet Communists wanted to pretend to be Democrats, they made it appear that the entire Democratic Party condemned the Clintons.
Elaine: Well let's use one outlet, Democracy Now! because Ava and C.I. have well documented how various actual Democratic voices were shut out and how these non-Democrats who wanted to pose as if they were -- hello, LIAR FRANCES FOX PIVEN who, if she votes Democratic this year will be doing so for the first time since what, 1992? -- brought on repeatedly to pose as Democrats. As Ava and C.I. long ago said, Amy Goodman poisoned the well.
Cedric: And started bringing on Barack supporters in 2007, supporters for his presidential run, I'm talking about African-Americans, whom she would allow to lie about that. In January 2008, she was still up to that practice with Melissa Harris-Lacewell. Bringing on this woman who's been campaigning for Barack the entire year prior as an objective, unvested party to comment on the New Hampshire primary. And Amy Goodman knew all about the work Melissa Harris-Lacewell was doing and didn't tell it and we all know damn well LIE FACE Melissa can't tell the truth.
Marcia: Off topic, but she looks like a buffoon in those braids she just started wearing. Whoever did her 'hair' -- it's not all her hair -- gave her a White girl look. Or maybe that's what Melissa asked for.
Jim: Okay, Dona just handed me a note saying, "Wrap up." We heard from everyone but Mike. I'm going to let Mike grab the wrap up unless anyone wants to jump in.
Mike: I'll take it. I'm Irish-Catholic. It wasn't all that long ago that Amy Goodman and others launched their war on Ireland. Like the entire community knows, Bill Clinton was visiting Ireland in 2005 and talking to them. And, like we all know, FAIR's Steve Rendall promised it would get a mention on CounterSpin because the American press was refusing to cover it. This was when they were all on their slam the Catholics in Ireland kick. Well there's nothing FAIR about FAIR as well all now know. But I do remember the rage I felt as these non-Irish and non-Irish-Americans were weighing in and invited on by the likes of Goodman and others. And that's really what we're talking about in this roundtable, I think. We're talking about how the people directly impacted are shut out of the conversation repeatedly. We're talking about how outsiders are repeatedly allowed to define us and to take some credit for doing so -- for defining us, mis-defining us, and for shutting us out of the conversation. It's been said repeatedly here, but it bears repeating: Sometimes the biggest sign of intelligence is knowing when to shut up and listen.
Jim: And on that note, we'll close. We had other topics but we just don't have the time. Rush transcript.