AMY GOODMAN:
We begin here in New York, where Columbia University has canceled
in-person classes today as campus protests over Israel’s war on Gaza
enter a sixth day. Classes will be held online today. The protests have
swelled after the arrest last week of over 100 students who had set up
an encampment to call for the school to divest from Israel. Organizers
say at least 50 students have been suspended from Barnard, 35 from
Columbia. A growing number of Columbia and Barnard alumni, employees and
guest speakers have also publicly condemned or announced they’re
boycotting the prestigious institutions.
Over the weekend, solidarity protests and encampments also began on other college campuses here in New York City at NYU, at The New School, as well as across the country, including at Yale, MIT, Tufts, Vanderbilt and University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.
We’re joined right now by two guests. In a moment we’ll speak with
Columbia University professor Mahmood Mamdani, who addressed students
participating in the Gaza Solidarity Encampment on Columbia’s campus
multiple times last week. But we begin with Jude Taha, Palestinian
Jordanian journalist and journalism student at Columbia University
Journalism School. She’s on Columbia’s campus here in New York, where
the student-led Gaza Solidarity Encampment is still underway. She’s
joining us from her school at Columbia Journalism School right now.
Welcome to Democracy Now!, Jude. Can you lay out what’s
happened over the weekend, what are people’s demands, and the fact that
today, the president — who all this happened a day after she testified
before Congress — has shut down the university for in-person classes,
all online today?
JUDE TAHA: Thank you for having me.
Right now what we’re seeing at Columbia is an unprecedented act of
solidarity, set up by students who initially set it up on the South Lawn
and then faced violent arrests and a lot of repression from
administration and ended up moving to the opposing lawn. And what we’re
seeing right now is just swaths of people, initially without tents,
sleeping on the ground, in sleeping bags, some of them without sleeping
bags, on grass, outside in the cold, under the rain.
And what we’re seeing is just they have three solid demands. The
first is divestment. The second is for Columbia to disclose their
financial investments and the financial records, especially in relation
to their workings with Israel. And the third is amnesty toward students.
The students have been very clear in the fact that they are not moving,
that they are very set in their demands.
Some negotiations are happening, from what I’ve heard from organizers
at the encampment. However, nothing has been announced yet. I know
there are a few things that came up yesterday that were a bit
surprising, which was the repitching of the tents. Organizers have said
that the administration is aware of the tents; however, that does not
necessarily mean that they agree. Organizers held a town hall last night
where they emphasized that, obviously, with an act of solidarity and
act of protest as large as this, to take over the space in the lawn
comes a level of risk. And they are very comfortable in that. They are
making sure everyone is aware. There is transparency, and there’s just a
community being built. And they are very clear in their demands. They
have three top demands, first and furthermost which is divestment.
AMY GOODMAN:
So, Jude, if you can talk about the whole progression of what happened,
from Shafik, President Shafik, testifying before Congress to these, I
won’t say “unprecedented,” arrests — over a hundred students were
arrested — but since, I think, 1968, the protests against the Vietnam
War?
JUDE TAHA:
I think what had happened initially was students showed up at the lawn
at around 4:30 a.m. They are members of a solidarity group called
Columbia University Apartheid Divest, which is made up of many student
groups. And they had been planning this for months, according to my
interviews with organizers. They studied the 1968 protests. They studied
the tactics used. And they were prepared to go. Initially, we did not
know this as outsiders. The tents were set up, and a lot of people were
caught off guard. But this has been something that the organizers have
planned for, especially in relation to Minouche Shafik’s hearing. But
what happened is, after they set up tents, we quickly saw an outpour of
support. Picket lines were forming. Students were joining from outside.
And initially what I saw to be like 40 to 50 students is now, on the
opposite lawn, nearly a hundred to a hundred students coming in and out
of the encampment.
The arrests were shocking. However, what was truly inspiring to see
is that students did not let that deter them. Shortly after the arrests
were carried out and after protests were surrounding the lawn where the
original encampment was at, students starting jumping into the opposing
lawn and pitching up tents there. And this is a reaction not only to
Columbia’s silencing of students and the fact that students feel
unheard, uncared for and not represented well by the institution that
they attend, but this is also, very much so, focused towards the ongoing
genocide in Gaza and the way the students are feeling, seeing the
massacres happen every day, with nearly over 30,000 people have been
killed. Their frustration is that they are complicit in this and their
university is complicit in this. And they want to make sure that their
voices are heard. And they want to make sure that what they’re asking is
met. And so, this is inspired by the 1968 protests. They just decided
to follow course.
AMY GOODMAN:
So, something unusual was tweeted on Friday. You’re speaking to us from
the Columbia J School, from the Columbia Journalism School.
JUDE TAHA: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN:
I had just been at the protest after the arrests, the encampment on
Thursday night. To say the least, it was not easy for anyone to get in
who did not have a student ID. Even that won’t get you in right now. It
was a true lockdown. And the next morning, at about 10:00, where you
are, the Columbia J School tweeted, “Columbia Journalism School is
committed to a free press. If you are a credentialed member of the media
and have been denied access to campus, please send us a DM. We will
facilitate access to campus.” This is a direct rebuke of the president,
of President Shafik?
JUDE TAHA:
I cannot — I cannot speak to that. I do know that our dean, Jelani
Cobb, is very committed to having a space where freedom of press can
thrive. And I know that Dean Cobb has been incredibly supportive of the
students who have been reporting on this and is very interested in
ensuring that media has access and that information is being transferred
clearly and accurately. Whether it is a direct rebuke, that is
unfortunately not something I am aware of.
However, I will say that since then, facilitating entrance has been
increasingly challenging. I am not sure of the dynamics of the
journalism school. I have been speaking with multiple journalists who
are coming in to cover the encampment, and increasingly it’s been harder
and harder to try and get them in. There has not been really any clear
guidelines that I can share about what does that entail for the
journalism school to facilitate, but what I have also been seeing is
people are believing that the facilitation through the journalism school
means access to the encampment. And I would like to emphasize the
encampment is not facilitating with the journalism school. It is an
entity that is functioning on its own. And it is a living space as much
as it is, you know, a private space within the university. Students are
very vulnerable there. They’re also very hesitant to speak to media. But
while they do believe that the media presence is important, there has
been this notion of belief that the journalism is facilitating access
into the encampment, which is not true. The journalism school is helping
facilitate entrance into campus for credentialed press.
AMY GOODMAN:
And if you also can talk about what the police chief said in response
to the Columbia president? New York Police Chief John Chell said
President Shafik identified the demonstration as a “clear and present
danger,” but that officers found the students to be peaceful and
cooperative, Shafik warning all students participating in the encampment
would be suspended. And the level of suspensions, Jude, if you can talk
about that, both at Columbia and even more at Barnard, and what exactly
this means? Students are locked out of their rooms almost immediately
and lose their meal cards in addition to everything else?
JUDE TAHA:
Yeah. To be quite honest, we have — me and a few other journalists have
been reporting on this for months now. We are familiar with these
students. We are familiar with these demands. And we were present from
day one, from nearly 6:00 in the morning, in the original encampment.
And there was no instance of violence that I am able to report. The
protesters were incredibly peaceful. Their demands are largely focused
on divestment. And they have community guidelines that they are asking
everyone who is entering the encampment to abide by. And the community
guidelines are to ensure safety, are to ensure that everyone feels
comfortable in the space and to ensure that Gaza is being centered
first.
In relation to what the police chief said, I have to agree that I was
not able to identify any violence or any danger that is present from
these students, especially right now in the second encampment, where
there is a thriving community, where people are bringing food, blankets.
Students are leaving their belongings, their personal belongings, for
hours with no worry that they will be taken. There is no fear amongst
them.
Therefore, it is truly an intimidation tactic, and the response that
we have seen from President Minouche Shafik has been incredibly
disheartening toward students. Students have been evicted. An organizer
that I’ve spoken to yesterday is terrified. They are not comfortable
walking out alone. They had to leave the state. They are being given 15
minutes to access their belongings. They are being suspended, with
waiting for an appeal or waiting for a meeting with administration to
understand the grounds of the suspension or what that entails. They are
leaving students in limbo. The students do not feel supported. They do
not know where they’re going. And it is incredibly disheartening and
terrifying, for some are 18-, 19-year-olds, to be deserted by their
campus.
And another thing is that the organizers have made it clear that this
is an intimidation tactic by the administration, and especially in
relation to President Shafik’s email that was sent at 1 a.m. last night.
The organizers have stated that this is an intimidation tactic to try
and scare people who are in the encampment out of their solidarity with
the Gaza Solidarity Encampment and with the demands of the movement. But
a lot of students are learning these risks, and they’re banding
together and they’re standing together to demand amnesty. It is unclear
why this is happening or the levels of suspension. Students who have
been suspended but have not been evicted are concerned about when are
they going to lose access to their housing. And students who have lost
access to their housing were not given any clear instructions, as far as
I know, for where to go next. So it is just this great limbo. And these
students are sacrificing a lot for the movement and for the demands
that they are asking for, but they are not being met with any support
from administration or guidance. And it is unclear what President Shafik
is citing when she says “danger.” And therefore, that is leaving a lot
of organizers confused as to what is actually happening.
AMY GOODMAN:
And among those arrested was Congressmember Ilhan Omar’s daughter, Isra
Hirsi, both suspended and arrested. And finally, very quickly, before
we go to professor Mamdani, the J school speaker for May 15th — and this
is a long time away, so we’ll see what happens — is the Haaretz
Israeli reporter Amira Hass, deeply critical of the occupation, of the
war on Gaza, lived in Gaza, the only Israeli Jewish journalist to have
lived there for years. Is that right?
JUDE TAHA:
Yep, that is correct. As far as we know, that has not been changed. The
speaker has been chosen for quite a long time now. And as far as I
know, that has not been changed.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, Jude Taha, I want to thank you for being with us.
