Rebecca: These protests have been taking place for some time. The difference is that they keep getting larger and larger.
Ruth: I'd add, as a Jewish woman, that this goes to the idiotic nonsense of Sarah Silverman, Amy Schumer, Jerry Seinfeld and so many others. It's bad enough that they believe being an American Jew means you have to act as though you're a citizen of Israel, but there's also the fact that they refused to call out Mr. Netanyahu who is now a War Criminal but was already a criminal before the ongoing assault started in October. He has used the assault to distract from the criminal charges he is facing and the likes of Ms. Silverman, Ms. Schumer and Mr. Seinfeld -- among others -- have allowed him to distract, to remain in power and to undermine any cease-fire.
Jim: Ava and C.I. have talked about how fatigue is setting in on this issue.
Elaine: Any crisis in the news becomes less of an outrage the longer is goes on. That's due to the fact that it's no longer new and that's due to the fact that people don't want to feel powerless. The longer an outrage continues, the more powerless people feel.
Mike: And duped. Don't forget duped. Students of today, take it from someone who was a student when the Iraq War first started, a lot of the people you're listening to are con artists. Norman Solomon, for example, pretends like he's all in on your movement. He did the same with Iraq. Seven US soldiers were injured in Iraq Friday. Why? Among other reasons because they're still there. And Norman was the great pretender on Iraq. He was not going to be silenced! He was not going to stop until all US troops were out of Iraq! This was illegal! Then Barack Obama gets elected and Norman's silent on the topic.
Ty: There are two ways we can go on that topic and, due to an e-mail, I'm going to steer us in another direction and we can come back to Iraq and fatigue in a moment. Cassie e-mailed that she appreciates the need to get Kamala Harris elected and to defeat Donald Trump. "I agree," she writes, "that Trump will destroy this country but I don't know that people will join me in holding Harris accountable after the election."
Isaiah: I can understand that worry but it's directed at the wrong camp. We've held Bully Boy Bush and Trump accountable. We held Joe Biden accountable and we held Barack Obama accountable. So that's a valid fear but you're aiming it at the wrong group.
Kat: I'll jump in because she sure is. We went from Bully Boy Bush leaving the White House to Barack moving in and speaking to college campuses about Iraq and no one wanted to hear it. I would be terrified in January when we went to speak to groups, January 2009, because there was this cult around him and people would boo. C.I. could handle it. She would make a joke, everyone would laugh and the tension would vanish. But I don't have her speaking ability and it was scary. It was probably the start of March 2009 when I stopped being nervous. But it was such a huge change in reception. Bully Boy Bush is in the White House and the crowds were for ending the Iraq War. He's out and Barack's in and no one could handle reality.
Dona: To be clear, those signs were there before he got elected. It's an argument we made here several times ahead of the 2008 election about why Hillary Clinton would be the better choice. As president, Hillary wouldn't be able to charm her way out of accountability.
Jess: Right. And in March of 2008, for example, John Nichols and the other lying whores are writing about Samantha Power leaving the campaign and lying about why. It had nothing to do with her calling Hillary a "monster." It had everything to do with her interviews she'd given in England including one that the BBC was about to air where she revealed that Barack's 'promise' to remove all US troops from Iraq within ten months of being sworn in was not a real promise. She said he'd get to the White House and then decide what he would do. But, at the time, he was winning over voters by lying that elect him and all US troops would be out of Iraq.
Stan: He lied and it was going to come out and that's why Samantha Power quit -- being in the campaign when that interview aired meant the press might have to cover it. So she resigned and liars like John Nichols covered for her. I think THE WASHINGTON POST was the only one who treated the interview seriously by actually reporting on it. And this wasn't an accident. THE NEW YORK TIMES lied for him in their interview. He told them that he'd send troops back into Iraq after withdrawing them. He ended up doing that in 2012. But the paper didn't put that in the interview. It was C.I. who took the time to read the transcript of the interview that got posted online to hip you to that.
Cedric: I want to bring Wally in on that. Wally, you know what I mean -- who I mean, our fan.
Wally: Tom Hayden. Tom was forever writing to object to how we worded something or how we emphasized this and not that. Blah blah blah. But Cedric and I did joint-posts and Tom would always e-mail me and not Cedric whom Tom knew was African-American. That made his already embarrassing speech at his son's wedding all the more embarrassing. And I would reply back, "You know Cedric co-writes these. Maybe e-mail him." I did not know him, had never met him at that point. In 2008, I did meet him through C.I. And I did point out to his face that he was refusing to write Cedric and that looked suspect.
Cedric: And Wally always shared the e-mails with me. But there was Tom acting like he was Mr. Racial Justice but couldn't even write a Black man? What a chicken s**t. So it was no surprise when the March interview was going on, Tom was silent. Then July 4th weekend of 2008, Tom wants to act like this is just news -- Samantha's March interview with the BBC. Tom's mad because Barack is now waffling about the ten months publicly. And so Tom writes this lie filled column for HUFFINGTON POST claiming to just have learned about this and lying that it wasn't covered in real time and lying that Hillary Clinton's campaign ignred it and didn't raise it to the press.
Wally: And Tom knew about it in real time. We had a face to face conversation about the BBC interview about six days after it was aired. He was just a liar. Always a liar.
Isaiah: And a coward. How spineless do you have to be in order to be Tom Hayden? Barack's repeatedly publicly sneering at "Tom Hayden Democrats" and Tom can get his tongue off Barack's nut sack? And Tom refused to call Barack out once he was president. There's one moment when it appeared he might have been but even then he was actually distracting from a more salient point about Barack and Iraq. The big news was that, in 2012, Barack sent US special forces back into Iraq and Tom pulled something else from that NEW YORK TIMES report -- by?
C.I.: Tim Arango.
Isaiah: Thank you. So Tom pulls something else from that report to emphasize. iI was planned distraction and he was useless.
Betty: So the point is, the person e-mailing is e-mailing the wrong people. We've never been afraid to call out. We've never backed away. You need to look at Tom Hayden -- well he's dead now. But look at John Nichols, Leslie Cagen, Susan 'Medea' Benjamin and the many others who refused to hold Barack Obama accountable. That includes Norman Solomon and especially David Swanson. And I want to note that when it was obvious Barack was failing to keep his promises, at the end of 2010, you had idiots refusing to hold him accountable and attacking anyone who tried to -- like Latoya Peterson. From Ava and C.I.'s "TV: Hermetically sealed 'independent' media:"
In DC, Latoya participated in a discussion with Marc Steiner, David
Swanson and Norman Solomon. Only Norman bothered to provide even a
slight push-back to Latoya's nonsense.
Her nonsense?
She noted throughout the evening that Barack and the Democratic Party
were not living up to what was needed nor what was promised. At one
point, she was mocking Gloria Feldt and others for saying that people
had to vote and that they could hold the elected accountable after the
election. That, said Latoya, was like giving your lollipops over to the
playground bully hoping he won't beat you up. Yet Marc Steiner floats
the notion of a progressive candidate challenging Barack in 2012 and
Latoya goes spastic.
After Norman's agreed with Steiner, Latoya is pronouncing the idea
"tantamount to a betrayal." What? Yes, according to Latoya, if Barack
is challenged, it would be a betrayal. At this point, she once again
wanted to speak for Latino voters. It was a thread that just didn't die
throughout the broadcast which should have been billed as For Latino Voters Who We Won't Allow To Speak For Themselves. It would be a betrayal "disappointing us," she said including Latinos in her 'us,' and "you need to give this man a chance!"
While David Swanson tried not to look at anyone and awkwardly sat in
silence, Norman had the good sense to challenge her, "Well where is the
betrayal? Are you saying he betrayed us or we're betraying him if we
don't give him a second term on a silver platter?"
"I don't think we should give him a second term on a silver platter,"
insisted Latoya -- apparently eyeing plastic trays at the Dollar General
instead. "I think we need to hold him more accountable. But I think
if White progressives were to say, 'Okay now we're going to chuck this
Black guy, we're going to get somebody else in, we're going to find an
Edwards that doesn't have a scandal . . .'"
She never came up for air and we don't serve in her court so we'll cut
fat mouth off right there to inject some reality. No one had identified
a potential candidate -- not as male or female, and certainly not the
race, How telling that Latoya automatically assumed it would be a White
man. And how stupid is she? Edwards' run for the presidency wasn't
brought down by a sex scandal. That scandal was covered up and only
exploded long after he'd shut down his campaign. In fact, if he hadn't
hid out in a hotel bathroom, he probably could have gotten away with the
scandal. (Edwards, while married to Elizabeth Edwards, had multiple
affairs. One such affair produced a child.)
Betty (Con't): So to the e-mailer, I'd argue, that's on you. You allowed people like John Nichols to get away with grifting. He's on grifter Katie Halper's program despite all of his lies and all of his whoring. And he's part of a big number of lefties that try to present themselves as our voices in the media. If Kamala gets elected, and I pray she does, I will hold her accountable. Don't worry about me, I do what I say I will do. Take care of yourself and stop frequenting political whores like John Nichols and Norman Solomon and Davis Swanson.
Jim: Okay. Now for the part that Ty was saying, about the fork in the road. There's fatigue on Gaza and fatigue on Iraq allowed Iraq to disappear from our radar. A number of supporters of Gaza are trying to harm Kamala's election. That's the only way to describe it.
Marcia: They're writing one attack on her after another. I can't go to COMMON DREAMS because it reads like a right-wing website. I'm sick of it. And it's getting to the point where I don't respect, like or listen to the 'uncommitted' voters be they in Michigan or wherever. I no longer care because you've argued -- while my rights and my very existence is under threat -- that the most important thing in the world to me and the deciding factor on my vote in a US presidential election should be Gaza. Sorry, I'll argue in favor of the Palestinians but I'm not withholding my vote from Kamala. And I'm not part of your movement, you've made sure of that by telling me that the rights of my wife, that my rights don't matter. The MAGA crowd is calling for overturning my rights. They're even calling for gay people to be shot in the back of the head. So, f**k you. I have to protect myself. I don't slam the Palestinians for protecting themselves so why in the world would you slam me for protecting myself? Too may people are coming off freaks.
Ann: And it's pushing away support for Palestinians. These freaks are harming the cause. And if Trump gets back in the White House, the Palestinians are screwed. But they may not be better if Kamala's elected and that has nothing to do with Kamala but everything to do with Democrats. I'm a Green. I'm voting for Kamala but I'm a Green. She'll be the first Democrat I've voted for. Ralph Nader? He lost everything due to his 2000 run. Susan Sarandon? She's still being punished by Democrats. If the election ends up close, you better grasp that the yellow dog Democrats will work to bury the issue of Gaza because of the way its supporters have behaved in this election cycle. And if Trump gets back in the White House? Not only will he go after them but Democrats won't do a thing to stop him because they'll be ticked off. It was always a stupid strategy but it only becomes more ignorant and more harmful with each passing day.
Dona: Someone's going to claim Ann's threatened them. I'm not joking, I know how the e-mails here are. Ann, are you in charge of the Democratic Party?
Ann: No, I'm a Green. And this is what'll likely happen. I know that as a Green who's observed past elections. Am I right, Jess?
Jess: Yeah, you're right. Like Ann, I'm a Green. Ralph Nader's very successful turnout in 2000 did not make Democrats rethink their platform. No electoral move against them ever does. What will? I have no idea because I'm not a Democrat. But I do know that they respond harshly to efforts to get people not to vote Democratic.
Jim: Jess, who are you voting for?
Jess: Kamala Harris. Like Ann, this will be my first time voting a Democrat for president. And don't give me that: We have to vote Green so we have access on the ballots for president in 2028!!!! What, we're going to run that loser a fourth time for president. I'm a Green. I'm not a member of the Jill Stein fan club. That anti-vax nut should have been sent packing after her 2012 loss. Instead, she's our presidential candidate for the third time. I'm not voting for that losing asshole who pretends she's a doctor while preaching that vaccines cause autism. And she chooses other nut jobs to stand with her, people who insist 9/11 didn't happen or it wasn't an attack from foreigners or no planes hit the Twin Towers. She's a nut job who surrounds herself with nut jobs. She's a disgrace and here's a message we can send with out votes as Greens: Stop running the same loser over and over.
Ann: Amen.
Marcia: Betty whatever happened to that idiot Latoya Peterson who insisted a primary challenge to Barack would be a "betrayal"?
Betty: Like most grifters, she moved on to another grift. Her blog RACIALICIOUS is thankfully no more. She does have a Twitter account with that name but hasn't posted there since 2023. She has at least two other Twitter accounts and, again, no posts since 2023.
Marcia: Good riddance.
Jim: Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe everyone participating plans to vote for Kamala. We've never had that moment before. Whether primary season or doing the general election, we've never all been lined up behind one candidate. This is a life changer of an election. The Republican's not Mitt Romney or John McCain. With those candidates, I had disagreements. If they won, I was prepared to roll up my sleeves and fight the next four years. This is different. This is Donald Trump and it's Project 2025 and it's Moms for Bigotry. This is about destroying the advances of the last 100 years. And I'm sorry but when I see their efforts to push child labor, I'm pretty sure that means they'd gladly bring back slavery as well. I'm probably the safest among those of us doing the roundtable. You know, Mike, Jess, Wally and I are straight White men. People of color and women and LGBTQ+ people are the ones being targeted immediately. Our children are being targeted -- all children. The fright wing behind Trump wants to destroy our education system, wants to ban books. And it's a war on knowledge and history. And they're doing that to our schools and our colleges. The University of Virginia is stopping the tours of Thomas Jefferson's home because they can't handle the tour guides noting reality: Jefferson was a slave owner. That's reality, stop trying to hide it. Marcia's "I'm supporting Kamala -- and noting the non-Blacks on the left who aren't" is so important because she is right, Trump gets a second term and, as a Black person, as a woman and as a lesbian, she is the first one they're coming after. And they want to destroy her marriage and they want to destroy Ty's marriage. All they want to do is destroy, not lift up.
Trina: Marcia, Ava, C.I. and I did a piece for a community newsletter on this topic and we quoted from Olay's latest video -- a roundtable that I'd like to insert here because it was an intelligent conversation and those are in short supply.
Jim: We'll put it in and in that piece you four wrote, one of the points was the housing program and the failure of COMMON DREAMS and other supposedly left websites to explore the benefits of programs she is addressing and proposing.
Trina: I can't go anywhere online. Forget WSWS, I had to drop them because they can't cover LGBTQ+ issues -- even the homophobic attacks and transphobic attacks -- physical attacks -- they won't cover it. I have eight children and love them all. One of my sons is gay. And, sorry, like Ruth, I'm not going out with my country attacking LGBTQ+ people or turning back the clocks on them.
Ruth: I think having a gay grandson, having a great friend like Marcia, having a great friend like Ty makes it very personal to me. I think Mike having the same friends and a brother makes it very personal to him. Knowing someone personally who is LGBTQ+ has helped us progress as a society and we can't go back.
Ty: Which is why it's harder and harder for me to address Gaza, to be honest. I'm Black and I'm gay, I'm married to a man. And when Rania whatever and the other YOUTUBERS start frothing like rabid dogs and pretending that Gaza is at stake in this US election? I just lose interest. I'm sorry. And I'm also sorry that they won't let us be joyful about Kamala Harris. Joe Biden? He would have lost this November. It was over. And now we have Kamala as the nominee and it is joyful. But we're not allowed to fill joy? What the hell is that? A great deal of the attacks on Kamala are about sexism and about racism.
Marcia: I do not hate Joe Biden. He did a lot in his four years and he did a lot in his career. I don't agree with everything he did in the Senate or as Vice President or as President. But I do find stuff to applaud and I'm proud to have voted for him in 2020. I would have voted for him in 2024. But it was over, after the debate, when the media painted that debate as worse than it was and spent every day after questioning his capabilities. And I thought it was over -- I thought for those of us who were women, those of us who were Black, those of us who were LGBTQ+, it was really over. I thought democracy stood no chance. So forgive me if I'm not in the mood to be lectured to by a bunch of self-righteous YOUTUBERS who've done nothing to help anyone but themselves. And, yes, I am glad Kamala Harris is our nominee and, yes, I am excited to vote for her. I'm excited to see what she'll do as president. And you better believe that when she needs calling out -- not if, when, all politicians need to be held accountable -- I'll do it. And I won't pussy foot around it or try to sugar coat it.
Jim: Agreed. Now we need to wind down --
Ty: Nope. One more e-mail. It's about C.I. and THE COMMON ILLS and I think Ava should be the one to speak to it. Isla e-mailed to comment on C.I.'s Wednesday snapshot and she writes, "Thank God, she covered it Wednesday morning because it wasn't getting attention, the attacks in Texas on those of us who are Latino. This is very serious. The attorney general of our state trying to intimidate us and scare us away from voter registration and voting. This is an attack on our rights and our freedoms. And it got local coverage but wasn't a national issue when it should have been. This Republican attack on Latinos will register with other Latinos in other states but only if they know about it. And they need to know about it because if they'd do it to us in Texas, the GOP would do it any state that they thought they could get away with it." Ava?
Ava: For those who don't know, I'm a Latina which is probably why Ty's tossing to me -- that and the fact that C.I. and I write a lot of things together about the media and the fact that C.I. said she didn't want to talk at all in this roundtable. Yeah, Isla is correct. I'm in California and I was outraged to learn that the attorney general in Texas, Ken Paxton, was sending armed officers to the homes of Latinos involved in voter registration, barging into their homes at six in the morning, refusing to let them get dressed and treating them like criminals. It's outrageous and it's offensive. There was no legitimate reason for it but it was intended to terrorize the Latino population in Texas. As a Latina, I call it out. CBS did something Wednesday evening and I'd like to include it.
Ava (Con't): Ken Paxton should be carted off in handcuffs for those raids. And Texas Latinos -- Democrats, Republicans, independents and non-voters -- need to especially register what happened. They need to turn out and they need to support Colin Allred for the US Senate and Democrats in every race to send a message to the GOP in Texas and elsewhere that this is not acceptable and we will not ignore it.
Jim: C.I., you and Texas community members Sabina and Francisco have been writing a lot about this over the last few days. Do you know what the last day to register to vote in Texas is?
C.I.: I didn't want to talk but I'll grab this. Sabina and Francisco are doing great work in Texas and it's great to talk to them and amplify them in any way possible. One thing not being reported is that Texas has disabled online voter registration. If you're planning to vote in Texas in November, the first thing you need to do is to check and make sure you weren't purged because Governor Greg Asshole has purged over a million people from the voter rolls. The next thing you need to know is that Greg Asshole has stopped online voter registration. You will need to register by October 7th. That may require you going to your local voter registration officials office. If you're renewing your drivers license or getting a replacement for it, you can register at the DMV. Fall means county fairs and there will be people with booths and tables set up to register voters.. You can also print up an application online and mail it in. You need to move quickly on that because October 7th is the deadline.
Jim: And on that note, we do wind down. This is a rush transcript.