And what of the resistance? The pink pussy hat wearers and their ilk?
They too approve of an American hegemon willing to kill at the first
sign of a propaganda lie. They aren’t resisting anything at all. Angela
Merkel and Justin Trudeau have backed Trump too. If we didn’t know
before we now know who the imperialists are in this country and around
the world.
The peace movement has an uphill climb. The demonization of Russia
and Syria and the skillful manipulation of public opinion will make the
work difficult. But someone must be willing to resist Trump and the
Democrats too. Hillary Clinton was a threat to world peace but her
electoral defeat did not mean the end of neocon dreams perpetrated by
Democrats, Republicans and the corporate media.
The struggle is always the same. Presidents may be Democrats or
Republicans. They may say they want to change foreign policy. But
bloodshed persists. The fights against it must be equally relentless.
-- Margaret Kimberley's "Freedom Rider: Trump Joins Democrats in the War Party" (BLACK AGENDA REPORT).
Tuesday, April 18, 2017
Truest statement of the week II
Instead of Democratic leaders taking responsibility for picking a dreadful candidate, ignoring the nation’s anti-establishment mood, and failing to offer any kind of inspiring message, the national Democrats could palm off the blame on “Russia! Russia! Russia!”
Thus, rather than looking in the mirror and trying to figure out how to correct their deep-seated problems, the national Democrats could instead focus on a quixotic tilting at Trump’s impeachment. Many on the Left joined in this fantasy because they have been so long without a Movement that the huge post-inaugural “pussy hat” marches were a temptation that they couldn’t resist. Russia-gate became the fuel to keep the “Movement” bandwagon rolling. #Resistance!
-- Robert Parry, "What Russia-gate Has Wrought" (CONSORTIUM NEWS).
Thus, rather than looking in the mirror and trying to figure out how to correct their deep-seated problems, the national Democrats could instead focus on a quixotic tilting at Trump’s impeachment. Many on the Left joined in this fantasy because they have been so long without a Movement that the huge post-inaugural “pussy hat” marches were a temptation that they couldn’t resist. Russia-gate became the fuel to keep the “Movement” bandwagon rolling. #Resistance!
-- Robert Parry, "What Russia-gate Has Wrought" (CONSORTIUM NEWS).
A note to our readers
Hey --
A Tuesday..
A Tuesday..
Let's thank all who participated this edition which includes Dallas and the following:
The Third Estate Sunday Review's Jim, Dona, Ty, Jess and Ava,
Rebecca of Sex and Politics and Screeds and Attitude,
Betty of Thomas Friedman Is a Great Man,
C.I. of The Common Ills and The Third Estate Sunday Review,
Kat of Kat's Korner (of The Common Ills),
Mike of Mikey Likes It!,
Elaine of Like Maria Said Paz),
Cedric of Cedric's Big Mix,
Ruth of Ruth's Report,
Wally of The Daily Jot,
Trina of Trina's Kitchen,
Marcia of SICKOFITRDLZ,
Stan of Oh Boy It Never Ends,
Isaiah of The World Today Just Nuts,
and Ann of Ann's Mega Dub.
The Third Estate Sunday Review's Jim, Dona, Ty, Jess and Ava,
Rebecca of Sex and Politics and Screeds and Attitude,
Betty of Thomas Friedman Is a Great Man,
C.I. of The Common Ills and The Third Estate Sunday Review,
Kat of Kat's Korner (of The Common Ills),
Mike of Mikey Likes It!,
Elaine of Like Maria Said Paz),
Cedric of Cedric's Big Mix,
Ruth of Ruth's Report,
Wally of The Daily Jot,
Trina of Trina's Kitchen,
Marcia of SICKOFITRDLZ,
Stan of Oh Boy It Never Ends,
Isaiah of The World Today Just Nuts,
and Ann of Ann's Mega Dub.
And what did we come up with?
Another truest for Margaret Kimberley.
And Robert Parry gets a Truest.
Tony Blair starts an illegal war but the British government works overtime to make sure he's not prosecuted. None Dare Call It Justice.
Ava and C.I. break it down.
A TV roundtable. We had a lot of e-mails asking us to make it a topic in an upcoming roundtable. We did but felt it was a roundtable all its own.
We did this as one long roundtable and then split it into politics and TV.
Catch her if you can!!!
John Dean is no one's friend. In fact, he should star in a COMEDY CENTRAL show: YOUR FILTHY ANUS IS GOING TO HELL.
Check out Jody Watley's latest.
What we listened to while writing.
Editorial: No Accountability
Don't we all?
Apparently not.
Because the United Kingdom is spending time and money to prevent War Hawk Tony Blair from being held accountable.
We know Iraq war was illegal, WMD's were a lie & that chemical weapons were used on civilians, Tony Blair should be prosecuted for his role
Yes, he should.
Tony Blair should be convicted of launching a War of Aggression, same crime the Nazis were convicted of at Nuremberg.
He should be in jail.
But War Poodles are apparently above the law.
Will Tony Blair ever face justice for the Iraq war? http://ow.ly/5fkL30aWwQZ
So Tony Blair will continue to be allowed to wander the streets and menace the public.
There is no accountability for the powerful.
But the poor will be stomped into the ground forever in the name of 'justice.'
TV: How the network brass fails the shareholders
2017 has not been a good year for Adam Pally. The HAPPY ENDINGS actor's new series MAKING HISTORY was set to debut on FOX but had already seen its production order of 13 episodes reduced to only 9.
March 5th the show debuted to a respectable (for FOX) 2.17 million viewers. Nothing to brag about, but nothing to be ashamed of.
Shame would be the following weeks.
The ratings dropped and dropped and dropped until hitting a low of 1.32 million viewers.
Viewers were the least of his trouble.
March 16th found him in NYC telling TMZ he'd go back in time and kill either Adolf Hitler or Donald Trump. As a joke, it flopped.
But worse was to come.
March 29th found VARIETY reported he'd been busted in NYC with pot and cocaine.
Adam Pally's funny and with his COMEDY CENTRAL show on Trump, the year may yet turn around for him.
We hope so.
But we'd argue FOX doomed him when they put him MAKING HISTORY.
It's not a bad show (or wasn't, word's coming that it won't be on the fall schedule, we're told).
It's just not a sitcom that should have ever been made.
30 ROCK.
Remember it?
It had no life in syndication.
So many shows like that don't, single camera sitcoms that mistake snark for wit and whimsy for punchlines.
Why the hell would FOX decide to do yet another sitcom that they won't make much money off of?
Even MODERN FAMILY struggles in syndication.
What works?
TWO AND 1/2 MEN, THE BIG BANG THEORY, 2 BROKE GIRLS and LAST MAN STANDING.
What do they share in common?
Multi-cam sitcoms.
How much money are networks losing with long running single-cam sitcoms?
FRIENDS and SEINFELD still do well in syndication. So does GOLDEN GIRLS.
What does poorly in syndication?
Hour long twist-and-turns shoes and single-cam sitcoms.
In a piece at MARKETWATCH this week, Therese Poletti noted:
But [NETFLIX CEO Reed] Hastings has apparently decided that one area of Netflix’s original-content business needs to start showing better results: In the company’s first-quarter earnings letter to shareholders, Hastings was quite frank about the company’s original films, while noting the recent hire of veteran studio executive Scott Stuber to run its movie business. The letter mentioned that Netflix has found success with Adam Sandler, whose original films have reportedly been streamed for more than 500 million hours, but also made a rare admission of a flop, “Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon: Sword of Destiny,” and said more bang is needed for Netflix’s bucks.
It's time the networks answered about bang for buck.
They continue to make piddling sitcoms with single cams despite the fact that the only hit sitcoms ratings wise are the multi-cam sitcoms, despite the fact that the only sitcoms to rake in millions in syndication are the multi-cams.
They think they look 'cool' and win the respect of the Water Cooler Set but that group of so-called critics has never reflected or led American tastes.
It's time for the shareholders to demand that money stop being wasted on these situational whimsies and that networks returned to making the comedies that result in actual laughter and actual money.
March 5th the show debuted to a respectable (for FOX) 2.17 million viewers. Nothing to brag about, but nothing to be ashamed of.
Shame would be the following weeks.
The ratings dropped and dropped and dropped until hitting a low of 1.32 million viewers.
Viewers were the least of his trouble.
March 16th found him in NYC telling TMZ he'd go back in time and kill either Adolf Hitler or Donald Trump. As a joke, it flopped.
But worse was to come.
March 29th found VARIETY reported he'd been busted in NYC with pot and cocaine.
Adam Pally's funny and with his COMEDY CENTRAL show on Trump, the year may yet turn around for him.
We hope so.
But we'd argue FOX doomed him when they put him MAKING HISTORY.
It's not a bad show (or wasn't, word's coming that it won't be on the fall schedule, we're told).
It's just not a sitcom that should have ever been made.
30 ROCK.
Remember it?
It had no life in syndication.
So many shows like that don't, single camera sitcoms that mistake snark for wit and whimsy for punchlines.
Why the hell would FOX decide to do yet another sitcom that they won't make much money off of?
Even MODERN FAMILY struggles in syndication.
What works?
TWO AND 1/2 MEN, THE BIG BANG THEORY, 2 BROKE GIRLS and LAST MAN STANDING.
What do they share in common?
Multi-cam sitcoms.
How much money are networks losing with long running single-cam sitcoms?
FRIENDS and SEINFELD still do well in syndication. So does GOLDEN GIRLS.
What does poorly in syndication?
Hour long twist-and-turns shoes and single-cam sitcoms.
In a piece at MARKETWATCH this week, Therese Poletti noted:
But [NETFLIX CEO Reed] Hastings has apparently decided that one area of Netflix’s original-content business needs to start showing better results: In the company’s first-quarter earnings letter to shareholders, Hastings was quite frank about the company’s original films, while noting the recent hire of veteran studio executive Scott Stuber to run its movie business. The letter mentioned that Netflix has found success with Adam Sandler, whose original films have reportedly been streamed for more than 500 million hours, but also made a rare admission of a flop, “Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon: Sword of Destiny,” and said more bang is needed for Netflix’s bucks.
It's time the networks answered about bang for buck.
They continue to make piddling sitcoms with single cams despite the fact that the only hit sitcoms ratings wise are the multi-cam sitcoms, despite the fact that the only sitcoms to rake in millions in syndication are the multi-cams.
They think they look 'cool' and win the respect of the Water Cooler Set but that group of so-called critics has never reflected or led American tastes.
It's time for the shareholders to demand that money stop being wasted on these situational whimsies and that networks returned to making the comedies that result in actual laughter and actual money.
TV Roundtable
Jim: It's roundtable time. We did a long roundtable which we're splitting into two parts. This is our TV roundtable and our e-mail
address is thethirdestatesundayreview@yahoo.com. Participating in our roundtable are The Third Estate Sunday Review's Dona, Ty, Jess, Ava, and me, Jim; Rebecca of Sex and Politics and Screeds and Attitude; Betty of Thomas Friedman Is a Great Man; C.I. of The Common Ills and The Third Estate Sunday Review; Kat of Kat's Korner (of The Common Ills); Cedric of Cedric's Big Mix; Mike of Mikey Likes It!; Elaine of Like Maria Said Paz); Ruth of Ruth's Report; Trina of Trina's Kitchen; Wally of The Daily Jot; Marcia of SICKOFITRDLZ; Stan of Oh Boy It Never Ends; Isaiah of The World Today Just Nuts and Ann of Ann's Mega Dub. You are reading a rush transcript.
Jim: So let's start with TV. Maybe end there. VEEP just started its new season.
Betty: Oh, goody. Another Emmy for Julia Louis-Dreyfus. She's won 5 times in a row for the first 5 seasons of VEEP. No one wants to point out the obvious (a) she doesn't deserve 5 wins, no one does and (b) her White privilege keeps worthy nominees of color from winning. I'm sorry, I used to like her but five wins a row? She looks like a greedy person. She should ask not to be nominated this year so that others can win.
Ruth: I would agree with Betty --
Betty: And Ava and C.I., they've made the same point here.
Ruth (Con't): Yes, they have. It's unfair. Tracee Ellis Ross is only one of many women who have done great work in the same period of time that the Emmys have been handing out the annual Julia Louis-Dreyfus award. And, let's be honest, no one watches VEEP.
Rebecca: Which is to me the most important part. No one cares about the Emmys anymore because they refuse to nominate deserving performers from well watched shows. Okay, Ava and C.I. have repeatedly noted that Patricia Heaton deserves an Emmy for THE MIDDLE. They don't even like Heaton but they note she's deserving. And THE MIDDLE is a show people watch.
Jess: Heaton's also a past nominee for EVERYBODY LOVES RAYMOND. And it makes their tastes look questionable when she's doing better work now than she did then and she can't even get a nomination. It's all about politics and it shouldn't be. I don't like Heaton's politics but I'd have no problem with her being nominated for her work on THE MIDDLE -- or even winning for that work because she is doing strong work.
Jim: Biggest surprise of the spring season?
Isaiah: Definitely BLACKLIST REDEMPTION.
Ty: That was a shocker. Ava and C.I. were right about it was dumb to keep from Scotty that her son was her son. And once that came out, the show went into high gear. It was easily the best broadcast hour of the spring.
Mike: I really loved it. In fact, as disappointed I was in the 24 reboot, I was thrilled by what they did on BLACKLIST REDEMPTION.
Cedric: And Mike called me about it and I ended up watching all the episodes on HULU. It was a tight show.
Dona: That's the only broadcast show I liked this spring. I think they could have done more to promote the show. Most of the people I know -- including in my own family -- my dad, my brother -- who watched it were guys. I think a lot of people missed out on the fact that besides being a strong action show, it was also a show with a lot of levels.
Mike: Absolutely.
Ann: And it was a show with a well balanced cast. Not one of those all White casts or shows where there's one token person of color.
Betty: Wasn't it funny how the reunion of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER escaped criticism for being so all White? There was Kendra but heck, they didn't invite her to the ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY reunion.
Stan: THE WB got away with so much -- the same was true of DAWSON'S CREEK.
Marcia: And CHARMED just had the underutilized token African-American detective unless it was when Debbi Morgan was on.
Rebecca: That show needed a lot more Debbi Morgan. She was so much more believable than --
Kat: Alyssa Milano as a mermaid!
Rebecca: Exactly.
Ann: Alyssa Milano as anything. I think the show should have ditched Phoebe and kept Pru.
Trina: Alyssa Milano was the Cheryl Ladd of the show -- she got by on 'boob acting' -- heavily featuring her boobs in shots. At least Cheryl Ladd had a sincere smile.
Jim: I could see Cheryl Ladd being a guest on THE GREAT INDOORS.
Rebecca: That is a show that CBS needs to bring back for a second season. I blogged about COMMUNITY at my site and was rarely impressed with anything actor Joel McHale did. I am so much more positive about his acting here. He's doing a great job as the lead of this sitcom.
Jim: Everyone seems to like that show.
Cedric: It's a funny show.
Wally: And there aren't a lot of those around. ABC needs to get rid of SPEECHLESS for sure. That show is not funny and they seem to think they can use the young male lead as their shield against criticism. They can't. It's just not funny.
Jim: Anyone beside Tracee Ellis Ross that anyone feels should be nominated for an Emmy?
Mike: Jennifer Lopez. Her work on SHADES OF BLUE is excellent and so much better than anything she's done before. It stands with OUT OF SIGHT among her dramatic performances. I'd also note it's a shameful omission that Sofia Vergara has never won an Emmy for MODERN FAMILY.
Stan: I'd agree with those assessments. I'd like to see Jessica Lange and Susan Sarandon get nominations for FEUD. Don't know the name of the actor who plays Klaus on THE ORIGINALS but he should get nominated.
Marcia: Joseph Morgan. He deserves an Emmy. I'd love to see THE ORIGINALS nominated period. It's a great show and it's having its best season so far currently. Riley Voelkel deserves to be nominated for her work as Freya. This is an amazing show. The whole cast is wonderful but I'd pitch those two especially.
Trina: I'd say Nicole Kidman for BIG LITTLE LIES.
Jim: Yes, absolutely. But let's include Ava and C.I. now because they praised the show but three e-mails came in complaining that they gave away the secret in their review.
Ava: We did not read the novel. We did not read the scripts. We watched two episodes before we wrote our review. We felt it was obvious that Ziggy's father was already in the cast and we're sorry that some feel we spoiled it for them. C.I.?
C.I.: We know Nicole -- who gave a defining performance, give it up for Nicole -- and we know David E. Kelley. Please note that we have repeatedly not reviewed David's shows because we feel it wouldn't be fair because he is a friend. We made an exception on this one because Nicole was so wonderful and because a few people seemed to forget how great David E. Kelley can be. He's no Aaron Sorkin. His characters aren't potato heads delivering monologues. He writes real characters and you get involved with them. Nicole was perfectly cast and we -- Ava and I -- keep hoping that the site's going to shut down soon -- THIRD -- so we felt we should go ahead and review this one. But as Ava said, we didn't have scripts or anything. We had the first episode and the second episode. That's all we had when we wrote that review and only learned it was based on a book from the credits. I agree with all the Emmy contenders already mentioned but I would add Alexander Skarsgard to the list. He was creepy and scary as Perry, the abusive husband of Nicole's character. He went places that weren't safe and predictable and he came up with an original character and not some sketch. I think he deserves to be nominated.
Jim: You saw no scripts and heard nothing regarding the plot.
Ava: No. Laura Dern, I think it was, had praised Nicole's performance early on when they started shooting. That's about all the information we had.
Jim: Speaking of spoilers -- a lot of e-mails have come in asking if you're going to review the return of PRISON BREAK.
Ava: Because our original review said so much?
Jim: "Prison Break Tease" was the title. Let me quote from it:
Armed with a pout and delivering every line in some sort of tribute to Cher's variety hour work,
while the big talk inside the prison is Michael's looks, we kept expecting Miller to hop ontop of an upright piano and break into a few verses of "I Saw A Man And He Danced With His Wife."
A friend swears that Miller's playing Michael as a "power bottom" and the character is just waiting for the "right man to call his bluff." We'd argue that our friend put way too much thought into the series -- far more, in fact, than the writers have.
Ava: I sometimes miss those days.
C.I.: Agreed.
Ava: We were so snarky.
C.I.: And so accurate.
Ava: Now we try provide context and be media analysts. We don't get to have as much fun.
Jim: In terms of outing, that's not your big one. You did a review -- and it's the only one you've changed after it went up without making a note that you'd changed it -- in which you spoke of the three gay actors on the show. After it went up?
Ava: We heard from one of the three. We thought he was officially out. He wasn't. He's out to people he knows, like us, but he wasn't -- and still isn't -- out. So we went in and changed our review.
C.I.: And there's no note because this would come up at some point and then people could go through and figure it out.
Rebecca: But back to PRISON BREAK, Wentworth is now out and, indeed, is a power bottom. Maybe in it's limited return, Went can hop on the upright piano and sing a little of "I Saw A Man And He Danced With His Wife"?
Jim: So let's start with TV. Maybe end there. VEEP just started its new season.
Betty: Oh, goody. Another Emmy for Julia Louis-Dreyfus. She's won 5 times in a row for the first 5 seasons of VEEP. No one wants to point out the obvious (a) she doesn't deserve 5 wins, no one does and (b) her White privilege keeps worthy nominees of color from winning. I'm sorry, I used to like her but five wins a row? She looks like a greedy person. She should ask not to be nominated this year so that others can win.
Ruth: I would agree with Betty --
Betty: And Ava and C.I., they've made the same point here.
Ruth (Con't): Yes, they have. It's unfair. Tracee Ellis Ross is only one of many women who have done great work in the same period of time that the Emmys have been handing out the annual Julia Louis-Dreyfus award. And, let's be honest, no one watches VEEP.
Rebecca: Which is to me the most important part. No one cares about the Emmys anymore because they refuse to nominate deserving performers from well watched shows. Okay, Ava and C.I. have repeatedly noted that Patricia Heaton deserves an Emmy for THE MIDDLE. They don't even like Heaton but they note she's deserving. And THE MIDDLE is a show people watch.
Jess: Heaton's also a past nominee for EVERYBODY LOVES RAYMOND. And it makes their tastes look questionable when she's doing better work now than she did then and she can't even get a nomination. It's all about politics and it shouldn't be. I don't like Heaton's politics but I'd have no problem with her being nominated for her work on THE MIDDLE -- or even winning for that work because she is doing strong work.
Jim: Biggest surprise of the spring season?
Isaiah: Definitely BLACKLIST REDEMPTION.
Ty: That was a shocker. Ava and C.I. were right about it was dumb to keep from Scotty that her son was her son. And once that came out, the show went into high gear. It was easily the best broadcast hour of the spring.
Mike: I really loved it. In fact, as disappointed I was in the 24 reboot, I was thrilled by what they did on BLACKLIST REDEMPTION.
Cedric: And Mike called me about it and I ended up watching all the episodes on HULU. It was a tight show.
Dona: That's the only broadcast show I liked this spring. I think they could have done more to promote the show. Most of the people I know -- including in my own family -- my dad, my brother -- who watched it were guys. I think a lot of people missed out on the fact that besides being a strong action show, it was also a show with a lot of levels.
Mike: Absolutely.
Ann: And it was a show with a well balanced cast. Not one of those all White casts or shows where there's one token person of color.
Betty: Wasn't it funny how the reunion of BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER escaped criticism for being so all White? There was Kendra but heck, they didn't invite her to the ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY reunion.
Stan: THE WB got away with so much -- the same was true of DAWSON'S CREEK.
Marcia: And CHARMED just had the underutilized token African-American detective unless it was when Debbi Morgan was on.
Rebecca: That show needed a lot more Debbi Morgan. She was so much more believable than --
Kat: Alyssa Milano as a mermaid!
Rebecca: Exactly.
Ann: Alyssa Milano as anything. I think the show should have ditched Phoebe and kept Pru.
Trina: Alyssa Milano was the Cheryl Ladd of the show -- she got by on 'boob acting' -- heavily featuring her boobs in shots. At least Cheryl Ladd had a sincere smile.
Jim: I could see Cheryl Ladd being a guest on THE GREAT INDOORS.
Rebecca: That is a show that CBS needs to bring back for a second season. I blogged about COMMUNITY at my site and was rarely impressed with anything actor Joel McHale did. I am so much more positive about his acting here. He's doing a great job as the lead of this sitcom.
Jim: Everyone seems to like that show.
Cedric: It's a funny show.
Wally: And there aren't a lot of those around. ABC needs to get rid of SPEECHLESS for sure. That show is not funny and they seem to think they can use the young male lead as their shield against criticism. They can't. It's just not funny.
Jim: Anyone beside Tracee Ellis Ross that anyone feels should be nominated for an Emmy?
Mike: Jennifer Lopez. Her work on SHADES OF BLUE is excellent and so much better than anything she's done before. It stands with OUT OF SIGHT among her dramatic performances. I'd also note it's a shameful omission that Sofia Vergara has never won an Emmy for MODERN FAMILY.
Stan: I'd agree with those assessments. I'd like to see Jessica Lange and Susan Sarandon get nominations for FEUD. Don't know the name of the actor who plays Klaus on THE ORIGINALS but he should get nominated.
Marcia: Joseph Morgan. He deserves an Emmy. I'd love to see THE ORIGINALS nominated period. It's a great show and it's having its best season so far currently. Riley Voelkel deserves to be nominated for her work as Freya. This is an amazing show. The whole cast is wonderful but I'd pitch those two especially.
Trina: I'd say Nicole Kidman for BIG LITTLE LIES.
Jim: Yes, absolutely. But let's include Ava and C.I. now because they praised the show but three e-mails came in complaining that they gave away the secret in their review.
Ava: We did not read the novel. We did not read the scripts. We watched two episodes before we wrote our review. We felt it was obvious that Ziggy's father was already in the cast and we're sorry that some feel we spoiled it for them. C.I.?
C.I.: We know Nicole -- who gave a defining performance, give it up for Nicole -- and we know David E. Kelley. Please note that we have repeatedly not reviewed David's shows because we feel it wouldn't be fair because he is a friend. We made an exception on this one because Nicole was so wonderful and because a few people seemed to forget how great David E. Kelley can be. He's no Aaron Sorkin. His characters aren't potato heads delivering monologues. He writes real characters and you get involved with them. Nicole was perfectly cast and we -- Ava and I -- keep hoping that the site's going to shut down soon -- THIRD -- so we felt we should go ahead and review this one. But as Ava said, we didn't have scripts or anything. We had the first episode and the second episode. That's all we had when we wrote that review and only learned it was based on a book from the credits. I agree with all the Emmy contenders already mentioned but I would add Alexander Skarsgard to the list. He was creepy and scary as Perry, the abusive husband of Nicole's character. He went places that weren't safe and predictable and he came up with an original character and not some sketch. I think he deserves to be nominated.
Jim: You saw no scripts and heard nothing regarding the plot.
Ava: No. Laura Dern, I think it was, had praised Nicole's performance early on when they started shooting. That's about all the information we had.
Jim: Speaking of spoilers -- a lot of e-mails have come in asking if you're going to review the return of PRISON BREAK.
Ava: Because our original review said so much?
Jim: "Prison Break Tease" was the title. Let me quote from it:
Armed with a pout and delivering every line in some sort of tribute to Cher's variety hour work,
while the big talk inside the prison is Michael's looks, we kept expecting Miller to hop ontop of an upright piano and break into a few verses of "I Saw A Man And He Danced With His Wife."
A friend swears that Miller's playing Michael as a "power bottom" and the character is just waiting for the "right man to call his bluff." We'd argue that our friend put way too much thought into the series -- far more, in fact, than the writers have.
Ava: I sometimes miss those days.
C.I.: Agreed.
Ava: We were so snarky.
C.I.: And so accurate.
Ava: Now we try provide context and be media analysts. We don't get to have as much fun.
Jim: In terms of outing, that's not your big one. You did a review -- and it's the only one you've changed after it went up without making a note that you'd changed it -- in which you spoke of the three gay actors on the show. After it went up?
Ava: We heard from one of the three. We thought he was officially out. He wasn't. He's out to people he knows, like us, but he wasn't -- and still isn't -- out. So we went in and changed our review.
C.I.: And there's no note because this would come up at some point and then people could go through and figure it out.
Rebecca: But back to PRISON BREAK, Wentworth is now out and, indeed, is a power bottom. Maybe in it's limited return, Went can hop on the upright piano and sing a little of "I Saw A Man And He Danced With His Wife"?
Political roundtable
Jim: Two roundtables this edition -- with this one focused on politics. Our e-mail
address is thethirdestatesundayreview@yahoo.com. Participating in our roundtable are The Third Estate Sunday Review's Dona, Ty, Jess, Ava, and me, Jim; Rebecca of Sex and Politics and Screeds and Attitude; Betty of Thomas Friedman Is a Great Man; C.I. of The Common Ills and The Third Estate Sunday Review; Kat of Kat's Korner (of The Common Ills); Cedric of Cedric's Big Mix; Mike of Mikey Likes It!; Elaine of Like Maria Said Paz); Ruth of Ruth's Report; Trina of Trina's Kitchen; Wally of The Daily Jot; Marcia of SICKOFITRDLZ; Stan of Oh Boy It Never Ends; Isaiah of The World Today Just Nuts and Ann of Ann's Mega Dub. Betty's kids did the
illustration. You are reading a rush transcript.
Trina: I love how Ava and C.I. work women into these TV articles and reviews. So many people try to copy then -- including some at COUNTERPUNCH -- and they don't get it because (a) they're promoting men and (b) the songs don't work for their writing. Ava and C.I. know what they're doing.
Elaine: Susie Mandrake doesn't have a clue. A friend showed me her site on Saturday. She's got all these video clips. Of men. She said, "Isn't she supposed to be a feminist?" I had no idea. I don't know the woman. Her site made clear that I didn't want to know her. It's really sad when a woman has a site and doesn't use it to help other women.
Dona: Okay, I'm busting in on that. Absolutely. I love what Elaine just said and it echoes the best compliments we get for this site -- from readers, from friends, from family. We have been a female positive site. We have made a difference. We have treated women as people. If it's Condi Rice, we didn't hold back because she was a woman. If it's a woman who is leading but not getting credit, we've noted her. We've done articles highlighting the music of women. We've made a point to include women not treat them as an afterthought.
Elaine: You know I agree with you on that.
Dona: And we've all worked so hard on that -- that's Elaine, that's Jim, that's Ty, that's everyone. But let's be honest. Go back to the first edition. And I'm proud of it. But the best parts aren't just Ava and C.I.'s one liners. The best parts are the issues Ava and C.I. would raise in group writing. It was like an awakening. Forget woke, it was an awakening. It was a master class and I'm so happy with what we have done in the 12 years online. I really am.
Betty: I agree so much and support that so much. I have a real problem with sites that don't note women. I try to include Cynthia McKinney at least once a week. I think it's important to be proactive.
Ty: Which was Betty and my big term to shorthand Ava and C.I. We'd be writing a piece on some issue, marriage equality, for example. They'd be like, why are we begging? It's equality, it's marriage equality, let's write from a position of strength and not be on the defensive. And I think that helped us as people and as writers. I know it helped me. I'm gay and I'm not going to apologize for it or beg you for 'tolerance.' I have all the same rights and feelings as anyone else. I'm going to stand and demand I'm treated with the same respect anyone else would have. Proactive was how Betty and I shorthanded it.
Betty: And we are a diverse group which I think has helped us take on stories and issues and do something that added to the conversation.
Marcia: And we'll stop to offer support and be understanding. In 2008, I wanted Hillary Clinton to be president. I started my site for that reason. I used vacation days to campaign for her. And when it didn't happen and supposed feminists tried to sheepherd us, I was very angry, not just hurt but angry. And I wrote a very angry post. And used very angry terms. And I e-mailed it to C.I. before I posted it. She called me back and said, you expressed yourself very well. I get what you're saying. If someone's offended that's on them. And that meant so much because I crossed so many lines in that post but I knew people had my back.
Jim: Let's move to politics quickly, Marcia you wanted Hillary to be president in 2008. You did not in 2016. So, to repeat The Debra Messings, you must be sexist.
Marcia: Yeah, me, the African-American lesbian, I'm sexist. No. I broke with Hillary while she was Secretary of State. Ruth did as well. And she wasn't the same candidate. She could no longer pretend that Iraq was some sort of variation. It was her character. As her call for attacks on Syria and Libya demonstrated. But there was so much more that was different. Ruth?
Ruth: She was entitled. Everything was wrong about her second campaign. First off, it was about her. It was as though, having lost in 2008's primaries to Barack Obama's personality campaign, she thought that was the answer. But she didn't have that magnetic personality. It was not going to work. What worked in 2008 was she was going to fight for us, fight for everyone. And I believe if she had run that kind of campaign in 2016, she could have won. Because Hillary Clinton can fight. Instead, she ran an empty campaign. I was not pleased that she became Secretary of State. I wanted her to stay out of the administration and run as a challenger in 2012. But I supported her and assumed my state would document all her great work as Secretary of State. And for awhile, I could document her travels. But then I would be in some hearing with Ava, C.I., Wally and Kat and I would be shocked by how uncooperative the State Department was being with Congress. And this was when the House was Democratically controlled. This was stalling and stonewalling Gary Ackerman -- a Democrat. I do not know how many hearings I sat in where he said getting information from Clinton's State Department was like a Jewish wedding where you say you are going to leave now but you never do. And Clinton's State Department would say they would turn something over and then in the next House committee hearing they would have again refused to turn it over.
Jess: As a Green, I'll say that there was a big difference between the 2008 Hillary campaign and the 2016. She acted as though she was owed. She wasn't talking, in 2016, about fighting for you. It was too much celebrity, as well. I don't need some celebrity telling me how to vote. Tell me who you are supporting? Sure, that's fine. Tell me who to vote for? No. Don't need it. Don't need photos of Alyssa Milano with her hand grazing her panties. Or her bosom photos. I mean, isn't this the woman who had a fit when her photos from BIKINI went online? And now she's all "I have to speak out for my children" while posting T&A photos at the top of her TWITTER feed?
Kat: As a general rule, when you've got nothing else as a celebrity, you tend to do cheesecake photos. And she's got nothing else. Let's face it. Everything since CHARMED has failed. She's played at feminism -- 'Dig me, I did a comic about a girl! With three men helping me!' She's really never been about the sisterhood. She thinks she can say ugly and mean things about Americans and then hide behind "I'm just expressing my opinion." No, you're attacking the American people. There's a difference. She preaches hate and gets mad because people don't agree.
Cedric: And then pretends like they're the ones with the problem or that they are Donald Trump supporters. We are a diverse group. And everyone here knows how I voted. I'm a lifelong Democrat and I did vote for Hillary. I would have preferred to have voted for Bernie, but Hillary was the nominee and I voted for her. So when I find Alyssa offensive in her Tweets, she needs to grasp that the problem is her. I'm someone who voted for Hillary. She needs to take a look at how she presents herself.
Jim: Dona's already passed me a note that we're going to do roundtables this edition. And she thinks this needs to be its own roundtable on politics, just so we all know that we've switched to politics. Okay, Cedric voted for Hillary. I did too. I was planning to vote for Jill Stein but, as all of you know, at the last minute, I went with Hillary. It was knee jerk. I'm sure I'm not the only American who, in the end, couldn't vote for Stein because of their Democratic upbringing. But Wally and Cedric, you held Hillary accountable in your humor posts.
Wally: Well we tried to find the humor in the run. And if someone calls me a sexist, I'll laugh in their face. I dropped out of college to campaign full time for Hillary in 2008. I gave it everything I had. Her campaign in 2016 did not speak to me at all.
Cedric: She was a lousy candidate in 2016. It's like she can't learn from her mistakes. But then again, she's unable to admit her mistakes. She didn't learn from Iraq -- as evidenced by her support for bombing Libya and trying to get Barack to start a war with Syria. She didn't learn from the mistakes of 2008. She seemed to think "I am the woman you will use to smash the glass ceiling" was the campaign slogan we were waiting for. It was not. She was a better candidate in 2008. And much more approachable. Wally had several encounters with her in 2008. I had two encounters. When people would ask us, we'd say, in 2015 and 2016, "Yeah, campaign for her she's really someone who wants to meet people." But she wasn't.
Kat: Not in 2016. She was suddenly Bully Boy Bush "I must be home and in my bed by nightfall." She was someone else in every way. And that's why she didn't campaign in Wisconsin. She made so many awful mistakes over and over.
Rebecca: I have never liked Hillary -- not even when C.I. and Hillary were tight back in the day. I did like Bill personally. But I always found Hillary fake and I'm referring to face to face events. But in 2008, as she dug in deep, she shocked me. She was a human punching bag but her response wasn't poor me, it was, "I am going to fight for you!" And I believed her and I voted for her. That Hillary could have won. Instead of that fighter, we had some wanna be celebrity hanging out with celebrities and thinking she looked cool when all she did was look out of touch.
Betty: I voted for Jill Stein. Gladly. I'm glad that Cedric and Jim voted for Hillary last year. I think that allows us to be more representative. And it is scary to break with a pattern and so Cedric and Jim are great resources for that. But I firmly believe we are going to have to break with the pattern.
Ann: I'm with Betty on this, absolutely. We have to make it clear that we're not going to be herded into a big tent that doesn't address our issues. We have to make it clear that if they want our votes, they have to win them. One thing, talking about what THE COMMON ILLS and C.I. has done, one thing that's so different and so great is that we have this in our conversation now. No one owns your vote. That's a point C.I. made repeatedly year after year. And it took time but now is part of our national discourse as it should be. No one owns your vote. Candidates have to earn it.
Ty: To stay on that, we also have the right not to vote. If no one earns your vote, you don't have to vote in that race. These are important points and I'm glad that we've stressed them here. We've been as welcoming as we could and that's because Jess and Ann are lifelong Greens. Betty's become a Green since moving to California. And the point is, we're not a mouthpiece for the Democratic Party or the Green Party or for ISO or whatever. We do what we do and we tell our truths.
Elaine: Even when pain in the asses don't like it. IVAW? We all supported them once upon a time. They did some great things with their Winter Soldier. But I will never forget the piece here that rightly noted a problem with one panel and then some woman starts threatening us -- an IVAW member -- we're going to change it or she's going to do this or that. It was like, "Uh, no. It's an article. You don't like our viewpoint. We're not really thrilled that you're comparing consensual dancing between a man and a woman to rape. But then you had no victims of sexual assault for your sexual assault panel. That was your problem, not our problem." I will never forget that.
Jim: You did change one thing at your site.
Elaine: Yes, on an unrelated manner. This woman wasn't IAVW. I believe she was a psychologist like I am. Her sister had just passed away and she was now responsible for her young niece. None of that had anything to do with what I wrote. But Mike and I were together and thinking of adopting -- which we did -- and I could relate to what she was saying. I wouldn't care what's online about me but I could relate to the struggle she was facing offline. And if changing two words in the piece I wrote would give her some peace offline -- even just maybe -- it was worth it to me.
Trina: I changed something for Adam Kokesh and it wasn't a problem. I had no problem at all. He had mentioned someone in a piece of writing and this person actually wasn't prepared to go public yet. So when that request came in, we all changed it and did so willingly. That was not a problem at all. I happen to like Adam but I'm sure I've written things he didn't like -- I'm sharing opinions, it's a given. If he saw something he didn't like, he didn't come crying. He wasn't a David Cay Johnston.
Jim: Make sure we spell that whiners name right or he'll e-mail us.
Jess: Actually, I don't give a f**k if his name is spelled right. He is one little bitch and I can't stand him.
Dona: The ones I really don't care for? When Ava and C.I. took on the pig boys trying to defend Ike Turner, the e-mails that came in on that? I did not like those Ike fans. They endorsed spouse abuse in their e-mails. But when I contacted them to ask about quoting, suddenly they weren't so big and brave.
Jim: And that's why my philosophy is, if you send it in to us, we can quote it. If you don't want to be quoted, as so many don't, then say so. Now there's David Corn who we'd never want to quote but he was quite the Ava and C.I. fan when they wrote "Katie was a cheerleader."
Rebecca: The only big complainers I've had would be the DLC-ers in the New Democrats. They whined. One whined about my making fun of his haircut and saying it looked like Mommy put a bowl over his head and cut it. How dare I, he e-mailed, didn't I know that his mother died a year ago? Nope. And don't care. You post a professional photo of yourself online, you need to choose a good one and get a decent haircut. Sorry, I did public relations, had my own firm, not going to feel sorry for some corporate fool who doesn't know how to look professional.
Stan: But that's not really your worst. Your worst was that friend of Bob Somerby's who was a stalker.
Rebecca: You are correct. He was so creepy. It was like one e-mail after another about how "I am her number one fan." He felt like he could demand all this information on me from C.I. And when C.I. told him to f**k off, he got really abusive.
Betty: It's been such an education to be online. Like, as women, some of us are going to get abuse in e-mails. And that's not the case with the guys.
Wally: Yeah, like Tom Hayden tries to be my best friend in an e-mail and gets ticked off when I point out that he's awful elitist because what he's commenting on was written by Cedric and myself and he didn't e-mail Cedric who is African-American, he just e-mailed the White guy. He did not like that response. And then he started getting louder and louder but not threatening.
Jim: And he stopped?
Wally: Yeah, when I e-mailed him, "You know we have met and we have spoken" and talked about C.I. and then he was like, "Oh, sorry, forget what I wrote."
Kat: Danny Schechter was another first rate whiner.
Jim: Yeah. Big time. He was always whining and e-mailing that he knew how bad Barack was but he couldn't write that because no one would read him. Whine. whine. Whine. We called Barack out. We don't worry about telling the truth. We never worry about that.
Dona: Let's note that Michael Ratner is another who wrote us. He never asked for corrections or for things to be altered. He frequently would provide a book or two on a topic we'd written about. I wish he'd been more vocal in opposing Barack publicly but in terms of our interaction in e-mails, he was a first-rate gentleman and very helpful.
Ty: But I am still stunned to this day by how many loud and proud voices went silent when Barack was in the White House. Oh, they'd e-mail and say they knew this or that was wrong, but they wouldn't put his feet to the fire, they wouldn't hold him accountable. It was something to see.
Jess: In a lot of ways, the reaction to Hillary in 2016, the revulsion, was in response to the ongoing wars and the ongoing spying and a Democratic base that refused to object.
Rebecca: Good point, Jess. Absolutely. I can see that right now as I look back.
Dona: Jess is very wise, a sage. We need to wrap up so let's wrap up with that thought.
Trina: I love how Ava and C.I. work women into these TV articles and reviews. So many people try to copy then -- including some at COUNTERPUNCH -- and they don't get it because (a) they're promoting men and (b) the songs don't work for their writing. Ava and C.I. know what they're doing.
Elaine: Susie Mandrake doesn't have a clue. A friend showed me her site on Saturday. She's got all these video clips. Of men. She said, "Isn't she supposed to be a feminist?" I had no idea. I don't know the woman. Her site made clear that I didn't want to know her. It's really sad when a woman has a site and doesn't use it to help other women.
Dona: Okay, I'm busting in on that. Absolutely. I love what Elaine just said and it echoes the best compliments we get for this site -- from readers, from friends, from family. We have been a female positive site. We have made a difference. We have treated women as people. If it's Condi Rice, we didn't hold back because she was a woman. If it's a woman who is leading but not getting credit, we've noted her. We've done articles highlighting the music of women. We've made a point to include women not treat them as an afterthought.
Elaine: You know I agree with you on that.
Dona: And we've all worked so hard on that -- that's Elaine, that's Jim, that's Ty, that's everyone. But let's be honest. Go back to the first edition. And I'm proud of it. But the best parts aren't just Ava and C.I.'s one liners. The best parts are the issues Ava and C.I. would raise in group writing. It was like an awakening. Forget woke, it was an awakening. It was a master class and I'm so happy with what we have done in the 12 years online. I really am.
Betty: I agree so much and support that so much. I have a real problem with sites that don't note women. I try to include Cynthia McKinney at least once a week. I think it's important to be proactive.
Ty: Which was Betty and my big term to shorthand Ava and C.I. We'd be writing a piece on some issue, marriage equality, for example. They'd be like, why are we begging? It's equality, it's marriage equality, let's write from a position of strength and not be on the defensive. And I think that helped us as people and as writers. I know it helped me. I'm gay and I'm not going to apologize for it or beg you for 'tolerance.' I have all the same rights and feelings as anyone else. I'm going to stand and demand I'm treated with the same respect anyone else would have. Proactive was how Betty and I shorthanded it.
Betty: And we are a diverse group which I think has helped us take on stories and issues and do something that added to the conversation.
Marcia: And we'll stop to offer support and be understanding. In 2008, I wanted Hillary Clinton to be president. I started my site for that reason. I used vacation days to campaign for her. And when it didn't happen and supposed feminists tried to sheepherd us, I was very angry, not just hurt but angry. And I wrote a very angry post. And used very angry terms. And I e-mailed it to C.I. before I posted it. She called me back and said, you expressed yourself very well. I get what you're saying. If someone's offended that's on them. And that meant so much because I crossed so many lines in that post but I knew people had my back.
Jim: Let's move to politics quickly, Marcia you wanted Hillary to be president in 2008. You did not in 2016. So, to repeat The Debra Messings, you must be sexist.
Marcia: Yeah, me, the African-American lesbian, I'm sexist. No. I broke with Hillary while she was Secretary of State. Ruth did as well. And she wasn't the same candidate. She could no longer pretend that Iraq was some sort of variation. It was her character. As her call for attacks on Syria and Libya demonstrated. But there was so much more that was different. Ruth?
Ruth: She was entitled. Everything was wrong about her second campaign. First off, it was about her. It was as though, having lost in 2008's primaries to Barack Obama's personality campaign, she thought that was the answer. But she didn't have that magnetic personality. It was not going to work. What worked in 2008 was she was going to fight for us, fight for everyone. And I believe if she had run that kind of campaign in 2016, she could have won. Because Hillary Clinton can fight. Instead, she ran an empty campaign. I was not pleased that she became Secretary of State. I wanted her to stay out of the administration and run as a challenger in 2012. But I supported her and assumed my state would document all her great work as Secretary of State. And for awhile, I could document her travels. But then I would be in some hearing with Ava, C.I., Wally and Kat and I would be shocked by how uncooperative the State Department was being with Congress. And this was when the House was Democratically controlled. This was stalling and stonewalling Gary Ackerman -- a Democrat. I do not know how many hearings I sat in where he said getting information from Clinton's State Department was like a Jewish wedding where you say you are going to leave now but you never do. And Clinton's State Department would say they would turn something over and then in the next House committee hearing they would have again refused to turn it over.
Jess: As a Green, I'll say that there was a big difference between the 2008 Hillary campaign and the 2016. She acted as though she was owed. She wasn't talking, in 2016, about fighting for you. It was too much celebrity, as well. I don't need some celebrity telling me how to vote. Tell me who you are supporting? Sure, that's fine. Tell me who to vote for? No. Don't need it. Don't need photos of Alyssa Milano with her hand grazing her panties. Or her bosom photos. I mean, isn't this the woman who had a fit when her photos from BIKINI went online? And now she's all "I have to speak out for my children" while posting T&A photos at the top of her TWITTER feed?
Kat: As a general rule, when you've got nothing else as a celebrity, you tend to do cheesecake photos. And she's got nothing else. Let's face it. Everything since CHARMED has failed. She's played at feminism -- 'Dig me, I did a comic about a girl! With three men helping me!' She's really never been about the sisterhood. She thinks she can say ugly and mean things about Americans and then hide behind "I'm just expressing my opinion." No, you're attacking the American people. There's a difference. She preaches hate and gets mad because people don't agree.
Cedric: And then pretends like they're the ones with the problem or that they are Donald Trump supporters. We are a diverse group. And everyone here knows how I voted. I'm a lifelong Democrat and I did vote for Hillary. I would have preferred to have voted for Bernie, but Hillary was the nominee and I voted for her. So when I find Alyssa offensive in her Tweets, she needs to grasp that the problem is her. I'm someone who voted for Hillary. She needs to take a look at how she presents herself.
Jim: Dona's already passed me a note that we're going to do roundtables this edition. And she thinks this needs to be its own roundtable on politics, just so we all know that we've switched to politics. Okay, Cedric voted for Hillary. I did too. I was planning to vote for Jill Stein but, as all of you know, at the last minute, I went with Hillary. It was knee jerk. I'm sure I'm not the only American who, in the end, couldn't vote for Stein because of their Democratic upbringing. But Wally and Cedric, you held Hillary accountable in your humor posts.
Wally: Well we tried to find the humor in the run. And if someone calls me a sexist, I'll laugh in their face. I dropped out of college to campaign full time for Hillary in 2008. I gave it everything I had. Her campaign in 2016 did not speak to me at all.
Cedric: She was a lousy candidate in 2016. It's like she can't learn from her mistakes. But then again, she's unable to admit her mistakes. She didn't learn from Iraq -- as evidenced by her support for bombing Libya and trying to get Barack to start a war with Syria. She didn't learn from the mistakes of 2008. She seemed to think "I am the woman you will use to smash the glass ceiling" was the campaign slogan we were waiting for. It was not. She was a better candidate in 2008. And much more approachable. Wally had several encounters with her in 2008. I had two encounters. When people would ask us, we'd say, in 2015 and 2016, "Yeah, campaign for her she's really someone who wants to meet people." But she wasn't.
Kat: Not in 2016. She was suddenly Bully Boy Bush "I must be home and in my bed by nightfall." She was someone else in every way. And that's why she didn't campaign in Wisconsin. She made so many awful mistakes over and over.
Rebecca: I have never liked Hillary -- not even when C.I. and Hillary were tight back in the day. I did like Bill personally. But I always found Hillary fake and I'm referring to face to face events. But in 2008, as she dug in deep, she shocked me. She was a human punching bag but her response wasn't poor me, it was, "I am going to fight for you!" And I believed her and I voted for her. That Hillary could have won. Instead of that fighter, we had some wanna be celebrity hanging out with celebrities and thinking she looked cool when all she did was look out of touch.
Betty: I voted for Jill Stein. Gladly. I'm glad that Cedric and Jim voted for Hillary last year. I think that allows us to be more representative. And it is scary to break with a pattern and so Cedric and Jim are great resources for that. But I firmly believe we are going to have to break with the pattern.
Ann: I'm with Betty on this, absolutely. We have to make it clear that we're not going to be herded into a big tent that doesn't address our issues. We have to make it clear that if they want our votes, they have to win them. One thing, talking about what THE COMMON ILLS and C.I. has done, one thing that's so different and so great is that we have this in our conversation now. No one owns your vote. That's a point C.I. made repeatedly year after year. And it took time but now is part of our national discourse as it should be. No one owns your vote. Candidates have to earn it.
Ty: To stay on that, we also have the right not to vote. If no one earns your vote, you don't have to vote in that race. These are important points and I'm glad that we've stressed them here. We've been as welcoming as we could and that's because Jess and Ann are lifelong Greens. Betty's become a Green since moving to California. And the point is, we're not a mouthpiece for the Democratic Party or the Green Party or for ISO or whatever. We do what we do and we tell our truths.
Elaine: Even when pain in the asses don't like it. IVAW? We all supported them once upon a time. They did some great things with their Winter Soldier. But I will never forget the piece here that rightly noted a problem with one panel and then some woman starts threatening us -- an IVAW member -- we're going to change it or she's going to do this or that. It was like, "Uh, no. It's an article. You don't like our viewpoint. We're not really thrilled that you're comparing consensual dancing between a man and a woman to rape. But then you had no victims of sexual assault for your sexual assault panel. That was your problem, not our problem." I will never forget that.
Jim: You did change one thing at your site.
Elaine: Yes, on an unrelated manner. This woman wasn't IAVW. I believe she was a psychologist like I am. Her sister had just passed away and she was now responsible for her young niece. None of that had anything to do with what I wrote. But Mike and I were together and thinking of adopting -- which we did -- and I could relate to what she was saying. I wouldn't care what's online about me but I could relate to the struggle she was facing offline. And if changing two words in the piece I wrote would give her some peace offline -- even just maybe -- it was worth it to me.
Trina: I changed something for Adam Kokesh and it wasn't a problem. I had no problem at all. He had mentioned someone in a piece of writing and this person actually wasn't prepared to go public yet. So when that request came in, we all changed it and did so willingly. That was not a problem at all. I happen to like Adam but I'm sure I've written things he didn't like -- I'm sharing opinions, it's a given. If he saw something he didn't like, he didn't come crying. He wasn't a David Cay Johnston.
Jim: Make sure we spell that whiners name right or he'll e-mail us.
Jess: Actually, I don't give a f**k if his name is spelled right. He is one little bitch and I can't stand him.
Dona: The ones I really don't care for? When Ava and C.I. took on the pig boys trying to defend Ike Turner, the e-mails that came in on that? I did not like those Ike fans. They endorsed spouse abuse in their e-mails. But when I contacted them to ask about quoting, suddenly they weren't so big and brave.
Jim: And that's why my philosophy is, if you send it in to us, we can quote it. If you don't want to be quoted, as so many don't, then say so. Now there's David Corn who we'd never want to quote but he was quite the Ava and C.I. fan when they wrote "Katie was a cheerleader."
Rebecca: The only big complainers I've had would be the DLC-ers in the New Democrats. They whined. One whined about my making fun of his haircut and saying it looked like Mommy put a bowl over his head and cut it. How dare I, he e-mailed, didn't I know that his mother died a year ago? Nope. And don't care. You post a professional photo of yourself online, you need to choose a good one and get a decent haircut. Sorry, I did public relations, had my own firm, not going to feel sorry for some corporate fool who doesn't know how to look professional.
Stan: But that's not really your worst. Your worst was that friend of Bob Somerby's who was a stalker.
Rebecca: You are correct. He was so creepy. It was like one e-mail after another about how "I am her number one fan." He felt like he could demand all this information on me from C.I. And when C.I. told him to f**k off, he got really abusive.
Betty: It's been such an education to be online. Like, as women, some of us are going to get abuse in e-mails. And that's not the case with the guys.
Wally: Yeah, like Tom Hayden tries to be my best friend in an e-mail and gets ticked off when I point out that he's awful elitist because what he's commenting on was written by Cedric and myself and he didn't e-mail Cedric who is African-American, he just e-mailed the White guy. He did not like that response. And then he started getting louder and louder but not threatening.
Jim: And he stopped?
Wally: Yeah, when I e-mailed him, "You know we have met and we have spoken" and talked about C.I. and then he was like, "Oh, sorry, forget what I wrote."
Kat: Danny Schechter was another first rate whiner.
Jim: Yeah. Big time. He was always whining and e-mailing that he knew how bad Barack was but he couldn't write that because no one would read him. Whine. whine. Whine. We called Barack out. We don't worry about telling the truth. We never worry about that.
Dona: Let's note that Michael Ratner is another who wrote us. He never asked for corrections or for things to be altered. He frequently would provide a book or two on a topic we'd written about. I wish he'd been more vocal in opposing Barack publicly but in terms of our interaction in e-mails, he was a first-rate gentleman and very helpful.
Ty: But I am still stunned to this day by how many loud and proud voices went silent when Barack was in the White House. Oh, they'd e-mail and say they knew this or that was wrong, but they wouldn't put his feet to the fire, they wouldn't hold him accountable. It was something to see.
Jess: In a lot of ways, the reaction to Hillary in 2016, the revulsion, was in response to the ongoing wars and the ongoing spying and a Democratic base that refused to object.
Rebecca: Good point, Jess. Absolutely. I can see that right now as I look back.
Dona: Jess is very wise, a sage. We need to wrap up so let's wrap up with that thought.
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