Mike: As Martha and Shirley pointed out, the book lists for $26.95. It's hardcover and, not counting the index, it's 348 pages. There are eight pages of black & white photos and notables pictured with Janis Ian include Billy Joel, Dolly Parton, Odetta, Mel Torme, Judy Collins, Helen Reddy and Chick Corea. As the title indicates, this is Janis Ian telling her story which begins as the child of parents spied on by the FBI and ends as a living legend comfortable in her own skin. Along the way, she shares her experiences in music, love and life. Odetta recently passed away, but she blurbed the book so I'll quote her, "Janis Ian was brilliant from the start. Through her songs and poems I have always noticed the grace in her use of language; now I can see her artistic flow in book form. Congratulations, Janis!"
Rebecca: Dona and I were talking about the book recently and she said something I'd wish she'd share here now.
Dona: Okay. I'd just started reading the book so this was probably November -- I was one of the last among us to read it -- and Rebecca asked me, "Do you know who she is?" I was confused because Kat had reviewed Janis Ian's Folk Is The New Black back in 2006 and I always listen to anything she recommends. Rebecca said, "No, I don't mean that one album. I mean do you know who Janis is?" And I did. "At Seventeen" is a song I think most women and young girls know. It's the sort of thing that will always be played on radio and I can remember my first time hearing it. We were at a grocery store and I was probably 14 or 15. It was me and my father, we were doing the shopping that weekend. And I was going for bread and the song came on and I was kind of bopping along with the beat, not knowing the song and somewhere around "the Valentines I never knew, the Friday night charades of youth . . ." I was pretty much just standing there, in front of the bread displays, staring up at the middle of the ceiling where the nearest speaker was. I love the song but, from that opening beat, I really wasn't expecting anything deep or meaningful. So the song's over all too soon. I grab the bread and go in search of my dad because he's older, so he'll know the song, right? And he didn't. I was saying, "It just went off. It was the song right before!" And he had no idea. I was ticked. I spent the rest of the shopping trying to remember something from the song. As we were putting the sacks in the trunk, I said, "basketball! She doesn't get called for basketball!" Dad says, "Oh, Janis Ian. 'At Seventeen'." And he liked the song but I think it goes to a different kind of experience. He heard it in the grocery store and it was a song he enjoyed. But there I was, in the midst of my teenage years, and it just spooked the hell out of me because it had so much to say that I was going through. For him, good tune. For me, heart-rendering.
Rebecca: I really love that story and I also wanted Dona to share it because we do know Janis. We all got Folk Is The New Black and loved it. But for some people, they have no clue unless you say "At Seventeen."
Jim: Good point. Okay, that's in the seventies. She starts singing and recording in the sixties.
Cedric: Well let me start with how she starts the book because it's one of the great opening lines: "I was born into the crack that split America." She just hooks you right there.
Jess: It's a strong opening. Not just that sentence -- though Cedric's right about it being among the great opening lines to a book -- but the whole thing. She sketches out what it was like in the US at that time briefly before diving into performing her first hit song, about an interracial couple, onstage and having racists taunt her. The song was "Society's Child" and she goes from that and two lessons she learned there -- one on stage, one after the concert -- into the first song she ever wrote. That section especially is very tight and, though it doesn't feel fussed over, she either put it through several drafts or got there by instinct because the flow is there and it's very cinematic.
Trina: I was thinking that on the first chapters and on how the entire book could be turned into a film. She's had an epic life and she captures it very well.
Jim: What was your favorite section of the book?
Trina: For me, it was Tennessee. When she moves there and on through when she and Pat buy their home together. I liked the descriptions in that section, of the region and the people. I know a number of you went to Tennessee to campaign for Hillary, but I've never been there. And I found that so interesting, the descriptions and the people. I also think it's among the strongest on describing the surroundings of any section in the book.
Jim: Theory on why that is?
Trina: She's broke. She has no money. The IRS is threatening her and taking everything she's making. So her surroundings are pretty much everything. If she had money -- forget more money, if she just had money -- her surroundings would have changed more. Both in Nashville and outside of it. Instead, it's a miracle when she fly out. So the surroundings are really explored and detailed.
Rebecca: I won't name the songwriter who screws her over but I hated that woman.
Marcia: Thank you! Me too! And she's so right, Janis is so right, there's something very wrong with being a lesbian and believing you're going to rot in hell because of it. She's so right that there are a number of lesbians out there who believe that though. We're in the Tennessee section still, by the way. I could talk about this section a lot. I actually didn't think I was going to enjoy it much as I got into it because I'm not really big on country music so "Janis goes to Nashville," I wouldn't have expected that to be my favorite section but it really was.
Ava: Marcia paused so I'm jumping in. She can pick back up in a second if she wants, but I want to back it up to explain that Janis had many successes around the world, was sitting on much property, making a great deal of money and, in the 1980s, discovers her bookkeeper -- I don't believe he was even a CPA -- that she'd been with since she was 15 had not been paying the taxes, had been ignoring the IRS warnings. Janis thought they were being paid. There were two sets of books, she'll discover later. In one were the checks on things she owed. That was the dummy set. The second set would be her bookkeeper writing a check to pay for his credit cards. The same check number, the same amount. But it went elsewhere. So the IRS comes down on her and they come down hard. They've very cruel. And it's while this is going on that she's in Tennessee. Marcia, I'm tossing back to you.
Marcia: I'm glad you offered all of that because I was about to talk about the thing the songwriter did that pissed me off the most and without that background, it won't register as much. Look, we all know relationships break up. Well, maybe not Trina, she's still married to her high school boyfriend all these years later.
Trina: All these years and years later. Decades. But, yeah, I know relationships aren't necessarily forever.
Marcia: And when a relationship is ending a lot of us -- including me -- are not always the nicest people. So I can read about a breakup and I can laugh and scowl and enjoy it from a distance. I know it's not going to be, "Let's shake hands and peace." That's just not how my breakups have been anyway. Mine have been loud and noisy, usually with some thrown plates. So there are a number of things I can forgive the songwriter for and not make a big deal out of it. I can say, "Oh, you packed up Janis' stuff. 'By mistake.' Yeah. Sure." But it's no big deal. And the cheating is a bigger deal but I think that was obvious when she's off riding horses with another woman, finally gets back at least a day later and then tells Janis to go to bed if she's tired while the songwriter hops in the hot tub with the other woman. I'm not saying that's no big deal but I'm saying, "Standard fare for breakups." But Janis has no money. She's sold off some things and with some of the money she and the songwriter buy a place in Los Angeles. After the breakup, even though it was promised that the house would be there for five years, the songwriter decides to sell it -- and other homes -- and doesn't even tell Janis. When someone has nothing and is struggling just to stay afloat, I don't see how you can do that? To me that is as cruel, if not crueler, than Tino and his hitting Janis.
Stan: That's Janis' ex-husband whom she leaves after he tries to kill her. Holds a gun on her, cocks it. She has to talk to him and talk to him for hours, he's already hit her and her jaw's swollen, but she's trying to talk him into bed so he'll go to sleep. As soon as he does, she splits. And, yeah, I agree with you there. Tino was greedy and controlling. He was violent and abusive. But that songwriter was basically putting Janis out on the streets. I really didn't care for her. Now maybe the fact that Tino's dead changes it or maybe I just didn't expect much from him to begin with -- due to how they met which I won't spoil for anyone who hasn't read it -- but that songwriter --
Cedric: Did you look her up? I did. It took several time on Google before I got a picture of her. And I agree with you both. Tino was sick. He was a sick man, sick in the head thinking it was okay to hit a woman. He was disgusting. And he would have leeched off of Janis Ian as long as he could. But this songwriter was supposedly a functioning adult and she did put Janis out on the streets by selling off the home they bought together. There's no excuse for that. I found a photo of her online. I looked at her eyes and thought, "Yeah, no one should ever trust you."
Mike: To be clear, no one's defending Tino, the abusive husband.
Cedric: Absolutely not. But we're saying he was sick and disgusting from his first entrance in the book. And he goes out that way too. But this songwriter is a success and supposedly -- except for her own homophobia -- adjusted. So it's really appalling what she does and I just think it's appalling that anyone could be homeless. I mean, I have thought about that a lot. I take the bus to work to do my part for the environment. At the bus stops by work, there are plenty of homeless people. And I never forget that they aren't "other" or any different than I am. Any of us, in the worst of circumstances, could end up homeless. So that the money bags songwriter -- who had several homes -- felt the need to sell of her home with Janis out from under Janis just really pissed me off. And, like Mike said, no one's defending Tino. Janis writes about her song "His Hands" and that's written about Tino's abuse. "His hands never hit me when he was sober," is one of the lines. But Tino was insane and demented. If he'd tried to date one of my cousins or friends, I would've pointed out that this is a highly over educated man who is hugely underemployed and there's a reason for that. It goes to anger issues and it goes to a chip on his shoulder. It will end violent and it will not be pretty.
Trina: But what the songwriter does . . . Like Marcia said, you expect that there will be no boy scouts or girl scouts in a break up. But you do not expect that. To me, it was beyond abusive. The songwriter bought that house with Janis. She knew Janis had nowhere to live once they broke up and that house was it. She knew that the IRS wouldn't even let her have a bank account. So for the songwriter to know all of that and then decide, "Oh, I'm selling!" -- and I'm sure that it was in the songwriter's name due to the IRS problems -- was just one of the cruelest things. I rank it higher than the two times Tino hit Janis or when "Cassie" betrays the ethical code and sleeps with her patient Janis. Those things both leave scars. But to kick someone out on the street when they have nothing and have the IRS waiting to grab anything they might be able to make? I think that woman's disgusting. Janis Ian writes that she can greet her like an old friend now. I couldn't.
Jim: I understand what everyone's saying. I honestly thought we'd be debating who was worse, Cassie or Tino? I didn't really register that moment, in the book, to the degree that everyone else did. Not disagreeing with the points made. I'm going to toss to Ruth because Dona's slipped me a note saying Ruth, Ty, Elaine and C.I. have not spoken.
Ruth: Well let's go to Elaine. Cassie was a therapist. Elaine's a psychologist. What did you think of that section?
Elaine: I thought, "I'm glad she lost her license." Not only did she betray her code, not only did she do serious damage to a patient --and of course, it wasn't just Janis, it never is just one when you find a doctor who sleeps with patients -- but years later, she gets a phone call from Janis and doesn't have the brains to immediately apologize? When a former patient calls you, as a therapist, you shouldn't be thinking, "Well, let me tell you what I've been up to." Your immediate thought should be, "Something's wrong." Maybe it will end up that the person has really incredible news they wanted to share and, if so, great. But most of the time, something really bad has happened and that's why they're calling you. They've hit a bump in the road or they need to go back into therapy. With Janis' call, she outlined to "Cassie" exactly what was going on, that she was back in therapy because of what Cassie had done. Cassie was an idiot on top of everything else she was. I can't imagine that she helped even the clients she didn't sleep with due to the fact that she was so obtuse and made everything about herself.
Ruth: But Janis did have two good therapists who helped her. Just to put that in. I guess what stood out to me -- and I'm the oldest person participating -- were the illnesses. And that was really upsetting for me to read about. Especially when she found happiness with Pat and things had picked up in the career and there was a tumor discovered. It was just too much. I almost put the book down.
Jim: Why didn't you?
Ruth: Well she writes something about just wanting to see next spring. And the way she wrote it really touched me so I kept reading. I was talking about the book with Treva, my best friend from college, and she pointed out, "Ruth, you should have known Janis was not going to die. She lived to write the book." Which is true but I got really involved in the book. I read it in two days.
Ty: So you really found the book involving?
Ruth: I really did. Was I the only one?
Ty: No. I think we all loved it. Certainly The Common Ills community did since they voted it the best book of 2008. And I think it's the cold-hearted nature of throwing someone out on the street that has so outraged. It goes beyond, "I'm through with you." It's just such a hateful thing to do. It says, "You meant nothing to me." That's just so devastating.
Stan: Especially when you consider how Janis Ian is already broke and the IRS is terrorizing her.
Ty: Right. That goes beyond kicking someone when they're down. I also think that you're seeing something there. Jim's father's a member of the Real Media and always good money, his mother frequently worked. I don't mean this in a bad way but I don't think Jim's ever wondered about being homeless. Now Marcia, Stan and myself grew up in families that struggled. And it's not just "a Black thing" because Trina grew up in similar conditions which is why she took such huge offense at it. Trina?
Trina: I think that's a good point. I know Stan and Marcia's stories because they're frequently over at the house on weekends -- like this one. And I know your history, Ty, as well. I'll share mine -- I've done so at my site many times -- my father was a Socialist and he didn't hide in any political closet. He suffered during McCarthyism and after. We didn't have a lot of necessities, forget extras. And I was one of eight kids --
Ava: And you had eight children.
Trina: And I had eight children. So I do know as an adult what it's like to be completely freaked out over the bills. I think Ty's point is a strong one. And I agree, it's not meant as an insult to Jim. My son, Mike, is participating in this and I would hope that -- like Jim -- he could emphasize with the homeless but I would hope that he wasn't immediately going to, "This could be me!" And, honestly, I do go there when I read about someone's finanical troubles.
Mike: No, I don't go there automatically but something to remember is that I'm second to the last. I'd imagine it was rougher for the oldest of my brothers and sisters, right? I mean, me and my younger sister really did have more because the others had moved out on their own, right? And also true is that these older brothers and sisters went out of their way to baby us. They may have teased me and all but they also would be dropping by and saying, "Hey, Mike, let's go get some ice cream or a burger."
Trina: That is true. And the first six really were one right after the other. There was a bit of break between the first six and the last two. My first six kids.
Mike: I remember the pot of beans when I was little and Dad was on strike. The pot of beans almost every night. But, let me brag on my parents here, they both knew how to inform us of what was going on without frightening us. They stressed it was temporary and made sure we didn't panic. And I think Ty's point is a strong one too.
Stan: It really is. Good call on that. Fortunately, I had good and caring parents and was never beaten as a child so that was never a fear, physical violence, but there were times when money was so tight. I was one of those kids on the school breakfast program and I have always appreciated Ruth's writing on that topic because she is a strong advocate for it and I am one of the people who benefitted from that. Second grade, especially, if it hadn't been for my school's breakfast program I really wouldn't have eaten my first meal until lunch. Money was just really tight and I can remember an eviction threat, my mom seeing that and trying to act calm and not saying a word until she spoke to my dad and me straining to hear every word from the next room and freaking out.
Rebecca: Well someone beats you, like her ex-husband did, and they're sick, they've got huge problems and are psycho. But someone does their part to try to make you homeless, they're flat out cruel. Tino's being drunk or drugged out both times he abuses Janis doesn't excuse his actions or make them okay. But the damage the songwriter attempts to do to Janis is done with a clear head and done with knowledge that Janis has nothing and the IRS is attacking her. And I would just like to say that I was outraged by the songwriter's actions that also included not just having an affair but lying about it because she was afraid Janis would fire the woman she was sleeping with. See, the songwriter didn't just have an affair, she did it with a woman producing Janis' album. And that had happened with another lover Janis had but with that woman I thought, "Flake." Sorry. With the songwriter, she presented as so together and grounded. And there were other things there that pissed me off as well. Janis was sick and weak and the songwriter knew that. She insisted on having her parents visit and then got upset that Janis put her hand on her shoulder as they were walking because Janis was weak. The songwriter goes into a hissing attack or fit. And that did nothing to endear her to me. Tino was a pig and a violent one. But, I'm like Cedric here, it was obvious -- from the outside, I'm not blaming Janis -- that Tino was no good. The songwriter came on as something special, something wonderful and caring. And not only did she cheat -- I believe twice -- but she also sold off the house she and Janis bought. I think she did that because Janis fired her lover. I think that's exactly why she did it. By the way, C.I. still hasn't spoken and Wally could probably up his participation.
Dona: I was just thinking that as well. I'm going to toss a question out to Wally on what was his favorite part?
Wally: I don't think I can pick just one. But the part that stood out the most to me, and probably not to anyone else since they didn't mention it, was during a doctor's visit. She finds out about her difficulties with pregnancy and carrying to term. And it's a very brief section, just a few sentences, maybe three. But I didn't get how much she really did blame herself and feel something was wrong with her because she couldn't have a child when she was married. This doctor's comment/diagnosis comes long after Tino's out of the picture.
Rebecca: That did stand out to me as well and I actually almost mentioned it. But I thought I was the only one -- and figured it was because I had miscarriage after miscarriage my entire life until my last pregnancy. Why did it stand out to you?
Wally: Probably because of the guilt factor and how much blame we all carry around for things that aren't our fault or in our control. It'd be great if we could all have a doctor come up and explain to us that whatever we were beating ourselves up for wasn't our fault and be able to back it up with a medical record/fact.
Jim: Okay, Jess, we need to get you to add something to what you've already said and -- as has been pointed out -- we need to get C.I. So Jess --
Jess: Kat wrote a review of Janis Ian's double-disc CD set. I can add that. C.I.'s got to scan the cover but it's already typed up. She finished it Saturday morning. And Kat and Betty aren't participating in this feature because we started it early and they're packing up and doing goodbye stuff for Betty's kids if I understood correctly. Betty's moving out to California for a job promotion and Kat went to Georgia to help her finish packing and fly back with her and the kids.
Jim: I knew everything but the double-disc review. Have you read it?
Jess: Yeah. I think it will surprise some because, even here, we've talked about Janis as a songwriter. And she's a great songwriter. But Kat's emphasizing the voice, the singer, in her review.
Jim: If it's up by the time we're posting --
Ava: Yeah, push one more thing off on C.I.
Jim: I was going to say we'd link to it in this and if it's not, we'd come back at some point -- no later than this Tuesday -- and provide a link to it. But it is true that we need to get a scan of Janis' book cover for this piece so it would be very easy to do a scan of the CDs then as well. But Jess, you're pick for best song on the collection?
Jess: That's Best of Janis Ian: The Autobiography Collection, just for the record. And that's a hard question. On disc one, I'd probably go with "Love Is Blind." Kat goes with "When Angels Cry." I know Stan loves "This Train Still Runs."
Stan: I really do. That song is just amazing.
Jim: I want Ruth, Elaine and Wally to name a favorite --
Jess: And, he said ignoring Jim's attempt to move past him, on disc two my favorite is probably "Stolen Fire."
Jim: I'm laughing. I did forget you'd said "disc one" when giving your previous answer. Okay, Ruth, Elaine and Wally.
Ruth: I will go with "Society's Child" just because it reminds me of both the best of the folk music in the sixties and the rock. It has a really fat sound to it and a melody that just buries itself in your head. Elaine?
Elaine: This is purely a personal choice, for all of us, but I think I'm going to go with "When Angels Cry." I just love Janis' voice on that and the chords are just perfect. I could listen to that song over and over. Like "All Those Promises" which I love.
Wally: I'd say "Tatto" on disc two and go with the obvious on disc one, "At Seventeen." Bomp-ba-ba-bomp . . . I love that beat.
Jim: I need to add Trina to this. Jess explained where Kat and Betty were and we're always glad to have Trina participate in anything, however, she's not their substitute. She loves books and when she heard from Mike that we were planning a book discussion, she asked him to see if it was okay if she participated. It's always okay if she participates in any feature we do here. We're always glad to have her input. But she was brought on before Kat and Betty were aware they'd be unable to participate.
Jess: Because the move -- which the kids voted for, Betty's kids -- just hit them Saturday afternoon and they came up with a list of friends they needed to say goodbye to. Even though they'd already said goodbyes on Friday.
Jim: Which I did not know. Well goodbyes are hard at any age. Okay, so Trina, your pick for favorite song on the collection?
Trina: I'll go with "Joy." I found that an amazing song on Folk Is The New Black. I still am amazed by it. My husband and I are big Janis fans so except for the previously unreleased tracks, we know all of her stuff. And I agree with Elaine that "All Those Promises" is an amazing song -- not on the Best of, but an amazing song off Folk Is The New Black.
Jim: And now we go to C.I.
C.I.: I think the book's been well covered and can't think of anything to add.
Jim: Don't worry, I have questions. Ava and C.I. both just flipped me off. Good naturedly, I'm sure. Okay, Tennessee was mentioned as a strong section. I was wondering if you agreed and I can tell by your face you don't.
C.I.: I don't disagree. I think that's one of the sections -- Jess was talking about the opening pages, beyond the introduction, and wondering how many drafts they'd gone through because they flowed so well. What I got from the Tennessee section -- which is a strong section both for what takes place and for the way it's written -- was -- I don't mean a lie on Janis' part. I just think she was a lot kinder to that songwriter than the songwriter deserved. That's the feeling I take away from that section. That she held back and that might have been out of fear of a lawsuit or just having the sense to say, "I can only beat myself up so much to write this book." Meaning, Jim's got a puzzled look, she said something like, "I'm going to tell this story and I'm going to offer the important details but I'm not going to destroy myself. I'm not going to open a vein."
Elaine: I'm not disagreeing -- please, C.I. picks up on things no one else ever notices. But I'm wondering why?
C.I.: One reason is the therapy sessions.
Elaine: I could kick myself for missing that. That's so true. She goes back into therapy and trusts no one because of the breakup with the songwriter as well as other things that happened earlier but the therapy focus, in the book, really is on what "Cassie" did to her and not the just-took-place breakup. Okay, yeah, I agree with C.I. And if we're right, I would agree it was very smart on Janis Ian's part. She's written some moving pages in that section and there's no reason for her to drag herself through hell. The way she does when she's recounting her time with Peter and her therapy in Philadelphia.
C.I.: Agreed. And I'm not dismissing that section of the book, the Tennessee section. It's wonderfully and powerfully written. But I feel she knew what her personal safety line was and walked up to it and no further. Like Elaine, I praise her for doing that, I don't fault her. And her decision to do that may have also allowed for the descriptions that Trina so enjoyed in that section. She really brings her surroundings to life in that section and that might be from maintaining a bit more distance on the breakup. Equally true, this distance -- not detachment, just a perspective -- demonstrates the growth she's gone through. And I believe Dona's pointing to her watch so I'll just say it's an amazing book, impossible to put down.
Jim: Correct. So that's a book discussion sooner than we planned but we made an exception due to the e-mails. This is a rush transcript. Pick up the book at bookstores, at your library or order it online.